Auto-immune diseases

Ethel..........thanx! Rec'd message, and nary a single bite taken out
it...........Joey

Being new to this list, it's been interesting to see the various symptoms people
experience with their own rheumatic disease. I just wanted to say thanks to all
of the people who have written to me personally to welcome me and offer some
words of encouragement and help. :)
The past couple of days I experienced a couple of new physical problems that
have me a tad worried, as I have never experienced them before.
Two nights ago I went to bed feeling faily fine, except for the pain and slight
swelling in my left knee and ankle, and a slightly sore right wrist. Nothing
different than what I'm used to.
Well, the next morning I woke up with terrible back pain. I've been experiencing
lower back stiffness and pain for a few months now, but it was always in the
muscular areas of my back. Well, this back pain was different because the pain
was in/on the vertabrae itself, affecting most of the lower "lumbar" region. So
tender and painful that running my fingers lightly along the spine hurts like
crazy. It feels so bruised, like someone hit whacked me across the back with a
2x4! . That night after eating out for dinner I suddenly experienced terrible
stomach cramps and needless to say, I had to find a washroom fast. I went home
feeling weak, nauseous and very tired.
Tonight my back is no better. I can move around pretty good. It doesn't really
affect me so long as the area is not being touched or I'm not lying on my back
or against a seat. My stomach is still feeling very sensitive and crampy and I'm
still nauseous, very tired and a wee bit weak.
I'm wondering if this is all tied in together, or whether the back pain and ill
feeling are just two different things going on at the same time. I have a long
history of gut problems, such as irritable bowel syndrome and occasionally
burning sensations in the tummy, but this is much different. The only other
thing I can think of is that the night before I woke up with the back pain, my
allergies were really bad, more so than usual, due to the odour emitting from a
new pine computer desk my parents bought. Love the smell, but I react strongly
to it. But whether or not it could trigger such pain and/or illness is beyond
me.
As you all know, I still don't know what kind of arthritis I have, although Dr.
Chiu said it sounded alot like psoriatic arthritis, and I do have a history of
mild psoriasis, even though I haven't had any psoriasis lesions in awhile. But
with this new pain in my spine, I'm wondering if it could possibly be ankylosing
spondylitis. Or perhaps psoriatic arthritis can affect the spine also.
Was just curious as to whether any of you have experienced back pain and/or gut
problems like this before?
Thanks for listening. :)
Sincerely
~Oceana~

<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/Lupuschron/index.html"
ANTIBIOTICTHERAPY</A
those of you not on AOL.
Carol E from NY

Thanks to the people who sent me notes on getting back on the list. I
finally got my e-mail working again and I realized I just needed to go
to onelist and check. Everything is fine - thanks for everyone's
help - I should have taken computer lessons instead of music! Sharon

Hi Ethel.............
I was reading your (long) post, and was interrupted - so filed it away for later
reading. Well, probably the cybermonster that lurks in my PC ate it up, 'cause
I cannot find it anywhere! Would it be possible to repost it? I promise to feed
the beast before filing again..........
Thanks :) Joey

Dear Dr. Chiu,
Does the AP work in cases of Inclusion Body Myositis? How about
Sarcoidosis?
Thank you for being such a wonderful part of our group and please tell
Lisbeth hello the next time you see her :-)
take care,
Connie

I wanted to try and take Ultram very much. Since I have been unable to take
other
anti-inflammatories, I hoped it would work well with me. It did not. It did help
my pain,
but the few times that I tried it for several days, I would have swelling of the
face, ankles,
hands, feet, and felt somewhat a smothering effect in my chest. I have asthma
history
so therefore probably that was it. One physician related to me it might be that
I cannot
take anti-inflam, and Ultram has just enough of those properties, I could not
take it.
Those have been my experience.
Martha Smith St. Augustine, Florida
Dennis missed us, thank God.
Hopefully it will miss the whole coast altogether and go out to sea.

Mark,
I understood you to ask about experiences with mtx. So, those of us
who had a negative experience and responded are hysterical!!
It always seemed to me that you had doubts about AP as you have
brought this up over and over again.
Why don't you take the mtx or whatever the NIH physicians are
recommending. Perhaps you won't have adverse reactions and it/they will
keep you going for awhile.
I get the impression that what you want is to hear from us that you
should take it. I say that based on your remarks regarding the
"hysteria" and your apparent anger.
I can understand that. My life has been taken away, I live on my
electric bed, use the computer, read, watch tv, crochet. It sucks. My
body is destroyed. I am totally dependent on my husband and he resents
it and I feel it. I am bound by severe ecoomic constraints so my care
is basically myself and this group. Most days I am disappointed to wake
up alive. I want to rise and walk my wonderful Newfie, drive to places,
work at either one of my professions that I studied so hard for, and see
people.
I don't wish this on anyone and I pray for all of us on this list.
I wish I could make it better for all of us. It is terrifying.
Denise
NC

Dear Group:
Since many people with arthritis also have
trouble with psoriasis, Dr Pagno's book
provides an detailed natural program for dealing with this problem. He even has
a chapter on the arthritic connection and one on eczema. More information is
contained in the enclosed URL:

I am in need of some assistance. My computer crashed. I think I have
the problem fixed but I am no longer getting mail from the group
(several days now). Could someone help me get back on the list. Thank
you. Sharon

Hello, Everyone....
Official request... Kathryn has been taking Ultram... We have been
to the Dr.s and it appears to be causing these severe toxic reactions... Has
anyone any information on negative reactions on Ultram..... This is for Fibro by
the way....(FMS)
As Always...thanks....George & Kathryn.....

<A
HREF="http://www.medscape.com/Medscape/OrthoSportsMed/journal/1999/v03.n04/mos
3024.kova/ca-mos3024.kova.html#a1"
Knee Cartilage Degeneration</A

Pretty technical, but maybe someone here with a medical background can
interpret this for us (don't ask me LOL this one is over my head!). I'm
posting it here because I know some are interested in the hormone
connection. Liz G

Dear Group:
A smart friend of mine sent me the enclosed URL for the Wilson's Syndrome
web site. Do any of you have any knowledge or opinion on this?
I have not ordered any of their materials,
but have begun testing body temperature
according to their instructions, and are coming in below normal. Sometimes it
is too easy to blame all our symptoms
on arthritis.

I went on Arava in June after 18 months on antibiotic therapy. The product
worked absolutely great however, I developed a rash and was forced to stop
it and take another medication to clean Arava from my system. It is so
potent you cannot have any type of immunization for 2 yrs after you stop
this drug. Arava costs approximately $8.00 a pill and you take a starting
dose of 100mg for 3 days (about $113.00) and then 10 or 20 mg daily. I
qualified for their patient assistance program and recieved approximately
$700.00 worth of Arava. They also refunded the $113.00 for the startup dose
since I couldn't take the product.
Hope this helps
Joanne

Hi all,
I have been checking in on this for the whole year and barely writing as I
was in an intensive master's program. My 19 year old daughter, Jenny has RA
and has been on the AP for 1 1/2 without a lot of change Well, actually, the
pain is about the same but she used to be real thirsty and brain fuzzy and
that seems better.
We are lucky enough to live in the Detroit Metro area and have Dr. David
Brownstein as our doctor. He has Jenny on the anitibiotic--she can't seem to
tolerate more thatn 50mg 3x a week. Tried doubling it and she was too achy
to function well at college. The other day he tried climadycin IV for her.
She actually felt a little more achy but more energetic. Does the climadycin
have bad side affects? He is talking about doing it monthly. He said some
people feel much better after a treatment.
Any feedback for those on it would be appreciated. Take care everyone.
Love,
brenda

Hello.........had my appointment with the eye doctor yesterday. Great news - he
sees absolutely no sign of any problems - related or unrelated to the RA! A
slight change in my near-sightedness, so I get a new prescription, but nothing
else.
Had an interesting conversation with the doc re. AP:
First, my records showed I was on Plaquenil (where they got that information I
haven't a clue, and I had to work hard to convince them I wasn't and have never
been!) and the doctor thought I was there for that reason. When he learned I was
doing antibiotics for the RA he was quite shocked. Wanted to know why
Clindymycin...."this is a very dangerous drug with very dire side-effects" he
said, to which I replied "when compared with Plaquenil, prednisone, etc, the
antibiotic seemed mild" - then he added (almost under his breath) " well, the
amt you're taking is next to nothing." Who was my doctor, and why did he
suggest antibiotics? Explained I approached my doctor, and he agreed to the AP.
Where did I hear about it? Explained that, saying the treatment has been around
60+ years. He said "well, I'VE never heard of it"...........I said "I'm not
surprised", which I think must have offended him, because he abruptly got up
and left without another word. I didn't even know if we were finished or not. He
was just outta there! I thought his change of attitude was my imagination, but
my sister who was with me said "what the hell was that all about?" Beats me.....
So, that's over. And today I feel about 50 percent better than I expected -
yesterday was busy and full; 100 mile trip, 4 hours in ceramics lab playing with
clay (my hands were hating it - my spirit was loving it), 2 hours at the
doctors. I'm surprised I'm not curled up in a tight ball somewhere. I'm even
thinking about grocery shopping later - which is an hours drive round trip.
Maybe - if it cools down.
Well, shared more than I intended when I began this post. Oh well.......
be well, Joey

Hello Gang,
It is official, I am on my way!!!!!!!! I got the clear from the
G.I doctor. So he said "Go get your hips done and see me in Jan, of next
year."
PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! and all my friends and family who prayed
for me and have stood by me through this terrible ordeal.
I am now more excited about the hip replacement. At first I
was scared .Now I want it done tomorrow. September 15 can not get here
fast enough. Please do not forget me on the 15th.
Thank you all so much for all your love , prayers and kind
words of support.
All of the Lords blessings, Yoly - "Soon to
be the bionic Senorita" LOL

One of my friends who has RA wants me to try the drug Arava. She says it is
well-worth
the money. In fact, it is $200.00 plus for 30 pills I believe.
That is a great deal of money!!!! Any one of you on Arava. Well, anyway she
knows about
my not being able to take so many of the RA medications. I am presently on the
minocycline
and predisone. I cannot take anti-inflam such as ibuprofen,
or any of the others such as azulfidine, nor plagueril (sp) and cannot take
aspirin, etc.
either.
Any info on this question? ** Does Arava aggravate or any side effect with
asthmatics?
Appreciate it.
Thanks Martha Smith gmsmith@...

Oops-sorry--meant to give you the url--be forewarned that this also
deals with mycoplasmas being used as biological weapons so is
controversial.
www.geocities.com/~marilynk/mycopl.htm
Hope
PS This article mentions naturopaths using the herb uva ursi for myco.
Anyone tried this?

Hi Group and Sarah,
I haven't had a problem with my bionic hip (4yrs ?) but do find if I sit
for a long time at my computer and then go for my afternoon walk I have pain
in the hip (outside area) which goes away during the walk. I also have
bionic knees and if I am laying down and go to get up the right one will
catch (out side of knee area). I have to rub out the knot that is there and
carefully stand up to stretch everything back into place. This doesn't
happen all the time but does if I move wrong when trying to get up. This has
been a new problem with the knee which were replaced 41/2 yrs.(?) ago. After
13 surgeries in the past 9 years one forgets the time and type of surgery
done. :o)
Earlier posts on erosion of joints was of interest as I have lost both knees,
hip, finger joints, and shoulder during the AP. (Was on Plaqunal for one
year prior to AP) The shoulder I haven't dealt with, (no pain at this time)
as I found having so many surgeries set me back in recovery. Since I haven't
had any surgeries in the past 4 years I am now pain free most days. The
weather changes seem to cause me minor joint pain now.
Although I still have very active RA factor of 300 all other blood work are
in normal range. I tried Tetracycline for several months, than switched to
Doxcy, and finally to minocin for past 7 years. I have just gone back to
Doxcy again to see if this will help my continue recovery of RA..
Unfortunately I only had the M P test run for the mycoplasma with a positive
past infection so am wondering now if I have other mycoplasma to deal with.
But am to scared to go off AP for testing for others. I don't want to
endure any more pain than what I have had to go through so many years. So
will experiement by changing antibiotics for now.
Sorry for the long post but this may be of interest to others in the
group.
Marlene
RA: 14yrs AP:11yrs
Original Post:
Do any of you have this happen? Lately my hip has been catching and
really hurting for a while almost like it did before the operation. I
dont know if its muscle or what. It happened once when I got in my truck
in town today and I was really in pain and looking for place to pull
over but there was none and finally it let up. Ive only had this
replacement two years.
Sarah

Hi,
I was on mtx which did nothing. The rheumy put me on mtx IM. It
helped my smaller joints but not the larger ones. Within two months, I
had asymptomatic hepatitis.
I disagree that we are zealots. Some people have been able to take
mtx seemingly without side effects. Perhaps, the mtx kept them going
longer than they would have been able to without it. It is a fact that
taking mtx is risky. For others, like me, it does not help and causes
problems.
I believe, that we are only trying to give you the benefit of our
experiences with mtx and point out the risk because you are part of our
group and we care about you. Sometimes, it is worth taking a risk,
which you, of course, must decide.
I'm sure the news you were given is very frightening. I'm sorry.
Denise
NC

<A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/y2k/hoax/y2khoax.htm"
95 and Windows 98 Year 2000 e-mail hoax</A

Hi Tony and Lea.
Ooops, I misspoke. It's 1 mg of Folic acid you should take, not 1 gram. See
there goes that brain fog.
Hugs, Anita

Do any of you have this happen? Lately my hip has been catching and
really hurting for a while almost like it did before the operation. I
dont know if its muscle or what. It happened once when I got in my truck
in town today and I was really in pain and looking for place to pull
over but there was none and finally it let up. Ive only had this
replacement two years.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Marlene,
Thanks for posting the web address. I had accessed their web site when
I was looking for information about hydrocortisone vs. prednisone, but I
would like to know if anyone in our group has tried their particular
program.
Judy Henry

http://www.microdose.com/
Sorry Group here is the URL for you on the North Dakota theraphy
Marlene

<A HREF="http://www.uproar.com/bob/"
HREF="http://www.microdose.com/"
dosage therapy for arthritis sufferers - diseases treated</A
web page for the North Dakota theraphy
Marlene Atique

Dear Group,
Have any of you heard of Microdose Therapy 2000 developed by the
University of North Dakota? They use very small doses of cortisone to
manage inflammation, diet to eliminate foods which cause or make flares
worse, and antibiotics for mycoplasmas in cases of rheumatoid arthritis.
I have not purchased their materials yet and wondered if any of you were
familiar with their program?
Also, does anyone presently take hydrocortisone, the natural hormone,
rather than prednisone, the synthetic hormone?
Thanks,
Judy Henry
JRA-35 years; Minocin-14 months

Hi Group -
Paulette just posted about having massage and physical
therapy. I'd really be interested in knowing how many of us
do the chiropractic thing.
The reason I'm curious is that in the '50's my Grandmother
had RA - very severe. She turned down an offer from the MD
to do gold and have all of her teeth pulled. Instead she
had chiropractic treatments every week (he came to the
house) and took vitamins. After a couple of years she was
completely CURED! Rebuilt the foundation of their 2-story,
4 bedroom farm house, did carpentry work, etc. She must
have been in her 50's then. She died in her mid 70's -
never had RA again!!!
So, I'm kinda curious.
Lea

I have to chuckle - my reply to Geoff went out before I was done with it, minus
my sig line which shows what I take. So here it is.
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day MWF;Zithromax 500mg T,Sa; Lodine
400mg 3x/day;Zone Diet;acidopholus(14 billion little critters);Slippery Elm;Fish
Oil(9 caps/day);Milk Thistle;bromelain;boswellia;glucosamine(1500mg)
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
ICQ 18123139

Hi,
I've just joined this list. I have RA and was diagnosed 7 years ago.
I've been taking Minocin for about 6 years and have virtually no
symptoms. I have slight aches in my ankles once in a while and that is
almost all I have now. I am one of the truly lucky ones. I think the
fact that I was diagnosed and started on Minocin early on helped
considerably. I now take a maintenance dose of Minocin - 2 x a week as
my doctor feels that sometimes when going off minocin it doesn't work as
well if you have to go back on it.
I also eat a vegetarian diet with some fish and exercise regularly. I
go to a physical therapist only once every 6 weeks now and also go to a
chiropractor once a month and have a massage.
I can't thank Dr. Brown enough and the use of minocin.
Paulette

I thought I might mention that my glucose levels have dropped dramatically
since I went on the Zone Diet some 4 months or so ago. I had one level at one
time at the NIH of 223 (of course I had just eaten a giant apple fritter a few
moments before), but other levels were at 123 (borderline) and 113 after I had
fasted even. Since being on the diet, my glucose has dropped to 77. So it does
appear that diet certainly will effect this - as most of you probably know, but
I thought that I would provide the proof in the pudding, so to speak (sugar free
pudding that is :)
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
http://www.bbonline.com/va/foxhill (Work)
Member of the World Photo Gallery at http://www.WorldPhotoGallery.com

FYI
Donna
Ottawa, Canada
Scleroderma, Jan.95, AP Oct.97
(My Story) www3.sympatico.ca/mousepotatoes

Hello Dr Chiu Kelly Pritchard here I have a friend who is losing his disks
and he said they may do an operation on him here where they inject some stuff
into his disk space and it makes the disks grow back He said the tequnique
was mastered by a dr in New Zealand, or perhaps Australia. I told him I would
write and ask you about it. Have you heard anything about that treatment?
As for myself I am well, with the exception of a kidney stone last week.
Got to experience Morphine not in a hurry to do that again All blood tests
were normal and no infection throughout the whole ordeal, with the exception
of a high white blood count, 11.01with the norms being 5.0 to 10.0, and my
glucose being at 142.
Do you think my WBC was high because of the kidney stone? Or because of
problems with my AS? Thanks for answering this,
Peace, Kelly

Hmm. That's not so good. I've read that psoriatic arthritis is in the same class
as ankylosing spondylitis. Maybe they are caused by the same bacteria. Of
course, I'm just guessing here. :)
Is PA a very progressive disease..meaning, is it as severe and damaging as RA
can be?
Has anyone on the list been successful with treating their PA with antibiotics?
Will do!
Sorry to ask so many questions.
Thanks again,
Oceana.

I had mild psoriasis on my thumbs during my teens. I also have an aunt and
cousin with psoriasis.
I no longer have it. I'm curious as to how you knew? Is psoriatic arthritis just
as easy to treat with minocin or doxy?
Thanks,
Oceana

Hello all!
I am new to this list and am very interested in finding out more about the
treatment of arthritis with antibiotics.
I am 27 years old and have been experiencing fatigue, stiff and painful joints,
muscle pain, multiple allergies, dry eyes and mouth, intolerance to
cold and heat, irritable bowel syndrome, cold hands and feet and skin
sensitivities for just over a year now. Yep. I think I should just be "put
down". Hehe.
I was sure I had fibromyalgia until I started to get a little swelling in my
left knee and ankle. As far as I know, fibromyalgia doesn't cause inflammation
or swelling. So now I am thinking I must have arthritis. The affected joints are
left knee and ankle, right wrist, lower back, hips, left shoulder and sternum.
Occasionally I get sore, stiff hands.
I am RF, ESR and ANA negative.
The pain comes and goes and moves from joint to joint. One day I can be almost
completely pain free, the next hurting all over.
I am very interested in starting antibiotics and would love to know if anyone
sees any great doctors or knows of any who use antibiotics for the treatment
of arthritis in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Thanks and God Bless!
Oceana

Came across this very interesting article on a CFIDS web site:
I have several questions for the group:
He mentions the antibiotic chloramphenicol as a preferred treatment for
systemic infections. Apparently only available at out of country
pharmacies. Has anyone used this or know anything about it?
He says that cholesterol and arginine stimulate growth of mycoplasmas
and should be avoided at all costs. I'm currently trying homemade
yoghurt to get the benefit of the bacteria. It may be making me worse
but can't tell for sure as I've been very ill for a long time. My
questions is would the yoghurt contribute significantly to raised
cholesterol and thus make the problem worse?
I'm impatiently awaiting the results of the first of two mycoplasma
PCR's. Don't have an RA diagnosis but have severe CFIDS and FM and
desperately want to get on antibiotics.
Thanks,
Hope

1997 til Jan.1999. Many problems developed and in March, my MD and rheumy
decided that I have developed a Minocin hypersensitivity. Many problems
have contined. Today i was told that The ANA shows a definite positive.
Over the past 10 RA years many ANA tests have been done and have always
been negative.

Hi........
Here's the thing:
I am a part-time art instructor at a local college. This past summer vacation I
allowed myself to be very very lazy. Now, with the new semester, I'm having
trouble "bouncing back". Goes like this: Monday's I work 9 hours (1 hour
driving time, 8 hours in wheelchair ) at my teaching job. Not physically
demanding (except maneuvering wheel chair). Tuesday I can do nothing.
Wednesday's I teach 3 1/2 hours (10 minutes driving time - big deal). Again,
nothing physically demanding, except maqneuvering chair. Thursday is not as bad
as Tuesday, but is not good. Friday's I attend ceramics class (2 hours driving
time, 5-6 hours class time - somewhat physically demanding.) Saturdays are much
like Tuesdays. (Let me add that I do not use the wheelchair at home - only when
I go "out".)
Every muscle and joint screams, and my arms feel like they have weights on
them. The first Tuesday (after semester started), I was also physically ill.
Thank God that hasn't repeated. It seems to take me a full day to recoup from a
full day of work.
Here's the questions:
I used to consider this a "herx" (until I really experienced a herx!)...now I'm
inclined to think of it as unused muscles/joints bitterly complaining. What is
the general feelings about this? Could it be a herx or flare? (By the way, I'm
not sure I understand the difference between the two.)
Did/does anyone else/everyone else experience these "day after" symptoms?
Will my strength and stamina build up as time goes on?
I often absolutely cannot function after a full days activities - must I "force"
myself, despite the pain and fatigue? All my instincts say "take it easy!"
These may seem to be pretty dumb questions.........and I wouldn't post them here
if there were someone else (who knows) that I could talk to.
So, there you go.........would appreciate any kind of response.
Be well, Joey

Hello Gang,
It is Yoly here!!! Tomorrow I am having a colon scope to see if
the C-Difficile I have been fighting is all gone. If it is not gone I
will not be able to get my hip replacement that is scheduled for the 15
of september. Please say a prayer for me that all will come out clear. I
do not want to postpone this any longer. It would take me another 2
months just to get into the Dr.'s schedule. Please, Please put in a good
word for me. I am so worried.
Take care and blessings, yoly!!

I guess my personal viewpoint is showing here and others may disagree with me.
When my daughter was in excruciating pain (she has systemic scleroderma,
rheumatoid arthritis, Raynauds and fibromyalgia), before we found out about the
antibiotics, her rheumatologist advised her to take methotrexate. On the basis
of her multi-disciplined lab experience, she flatly refused.
I'm against this whole philosophy of poison and burn where treating the human
body is concerned. I think the body has an integrity of its own and drugs like
methotrexate have little place in any kind of disease. At best it might help
some people temporarily, but it does nothing to alter the course of the disease
and I've seen so much damage caused by this drug. No flames please - I respect
everyone's right to their own opinion and am just stating mine.
The NSAIDS aren't too great either from a point of view of damage versus
benefit. But some kind of anti-inflammatory is needed to keep pain under
control. What to choose? Prednisone sometimes is the only thing that helps but
it comes at a high personal price too.
It's probably a case of trying whatever's available and see what helps, starting
with the herbals or RASPES and then the NSAIDS from the least damaging drug
first. Dr. Mercola sent a table of NSAIDS, from the least/most harmful point of
view. Does anyone still have it? I know Relafen was considered the safest with
Enbrel and Arava further down the list.
Chris.
Why would you give metho a "miss" vs. Enbrel or Arava? The latter are at
this point, unproven drugs, with some potentially serious side effects (not
that metho or antibiotics are harmless). Lodine is also on a par with
Relafen for safety, if there is such a thing with Nsaids.

Hi Everybody!
I am new to the list. It sure is good to find a support group -others who
can empathize with my condition and give me advice.
I have RA--2 3/4 years duration.
I have Hypothyroidism (low thyroid) and take 125 mg/ daily Levothyroxine.
Q. Does thyroid disease precipitate RA?
I also have osteoporosis, brought about by the RA meds and take Fosamax
and
calcium. (Rheumatologist told me that the Methotrexate and
Predisone
cause osteoporosis.)
After the first 6 months of NSAIDs, my rheumatologist put me on
Methotrexate with 1000 mg Napersyn daily until the Methotrexate kicked
in. I was on this for 9 months until I threw a fit and went off of it.
The doctor put me on Plaquenil for 3 months and then convinced me to go
back on the methotrexate along with the plaquenil. Nine months later I
went off the plaquenil (It was causing eye problems) and the
methotrexate.
By this time I had read THE ROAD BACK by McPherson-Brown and asked the
rheumatologist if he would put me on tetracycline. He gave me a
prescription of Minocycline 100 mg, twice daily and I have been on that
for 10 weeks. The MD told me that tetracyclines were effective for RA
in only 54-56 % of the time, that it was usually effective in only the
first year to 18 months of RA. I asked him if I would experience the
Herxheimer effect (mentioned in The Road Back) and he said "no". No
other NSAIDs were prescribed but I was taking Tramadol (Ultram) for
pain.
Q.DO TETRACYCLINES CURE RA AFTER 3 YEARS?
Q. IS IT USUAL TO HAVE REBOUND PAIN WHEN GOING ON THIS
ANTIBIOTIC?
1. Within 3-4 days of going on the Minocin, I was experiencing horrific
pain in one shoulder. In a day or two, the pain disappeared only to come
with vengeance in another part of the body-- shoulders, knees or ankles,
and usually feet and hands constantly.
This pain and swelling has gone on for the entire 10 weeks. The Tramadol
helps relieve the pain, somewhat, but does nothing for the inflammation.
Q. SHOULD I BE TAKING AN ANTI-INFLAMMATORY?
Q. ARE WEAK SWOLLEN HANDS A USUAL SYMPTOM?
Q. ARE SORE PAINFUL FEET A USUAL SYMPTOM?
2. Since going on this Minocin, I have been incredibly tired. I have no
life. I get up in the morning and go to the community pool for 4 days a
week to exercise. Two days a week I walk on a treadmill and do back
exercises. After these exercises and eating breakfast, I am so tired, I
can sit at the computer for an hour or so at most then I MUST lie down
for a nap. Sometimes I also need a nap in the afternoon as well. These
naps last 1 1/2 to 2 hours regardless of the amount of sleep the night
before.
Q. IS THIS FATIGUE, SLEEPING USUAL?.
3. I seem dull and stupid, insecure and inadequate for most physical and
mental tasks. I am insecure in my driving and my husband drives me most
places. I am not confident in making simple change when purchasing
something. I can read for only a short time as my attention span and eye
difficulties (blurry) conspire to thwart my efforts.
Q. ARE EYE PROBLEMS A USUAL SYMPTOM?
Q. IS DIMINISHED MENTAL ACUITY TO BE EXPECTED WITH THIS
ANTIBIOTIC TREATMENT?
4. My rheumatologist did not take any tests to determine the sed rate or
the RA factor before putting me on the Minocycline, though I had been
given them 30 months before. I had complete blood and urine work up a
week prior to determine what damage the Methotrexate was doing to my
body.
Q. SHOULD MY Rheumatologist HAVE ORDERED SED RATE AND RA
FACTOR TESTS? ANY OTHER TESTS PRIOR TO GOING ON THIS
ANTIBIOTIC? IS IT TOO LATE TO TAKE THESE TESTS?
5. I have had a continuous sinus infection. In fact, that seemed to lead
up to the RA. I had had the sinus infection on and off, being prescribed
one course of antibiotics by my primary care physician then another
course by an Eye-Nose-Throat specialist. The ENT specialist couldn't find
any obstructing growths, though I complained that I could not breathe
through my nose at night and that it was always crusty in the mornings.
This inability to diagnose my problem led my primary care physician to
run the RA factor test and diagnose me positive for RA. Since going on
the Minocycline, my sinus infection seems to have cleared up. Then a
couple of days ago, I began spitting up the usual morning green
mucous.This morning it seems to have gone away again.
Q. CAN A CONTINUING INFECTION PRECIPITATE RA?
6. The Mcpherson-Brown book mentioned that intravenous tetracycline were
administered, followed by oral long-term therapy.
Q. HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT ONE HAVE THE INTRAVENOUS
TETRACYCLINE? SHOULD I GET IT NOW?
Q. HOW DO THE RHEUMATOLOGISTS DECIDE WHO GETS THE
INTRAVENOUS TETRACYCLINE AND WHO DOESN'T?
Thanks to all you wonderful, caring people,
Gratefully, Glenda

I have heard it is necessary to supplement with Folic Acid if one is taking
MTX....my RD didn't mention anything about this but from everything I've
read it is necessary...how much is the norm...(i.e. how much should I take
each day?...tks
Blessings and Health
Tony

Hi Mark,
I started Ap minocin in 10/97
These are x-ray reports of mine..
1/23/98 At the right hand there is a dorsal soft tissue swelling over
the wrist and proximal hand. No erosions of the carpus or ulnar styloid.
There is also capsular distention involving the PIP joints of the right
hand. No erosions are identified. Both feet Impression; No osseous
erosions at either foot.
at the time I had massive pain.
9/28/98
There are bilateral and symetrical erosions seen on todays study
involving the waist of the scaphoid bone. These do not appear to have
been present on the proir study. There is a slight erosion of the volvar
aspect of the lunate bilaterally. Also a small erosion on the radial
aspect of the right index finger.
Both feet demonstrate some osteoarthritic change of the MT joint of the
great toes.Thers is a suggestion of an erosion seen at the ulnar aspect
of the third metatarsal head on the left. This is a new finding
Even this scared me so I'm sure you are too. The offer still
stands...come to PA and see my doc for IV's :) :) :)
I really do feel bad that you are not doing as well as you want to and
maybe the docs are right ..like (I think) Linda you need to add Meth.
But if you want to take up my offer I'll be there 100 %
Sorry about the past... cooky
new finding

Hi Group
I work with a woman that has had RA for about 4 years and
has been on mtx for about 3 of the 4 years. (She won't even
consider AP.) She has always had some small nodules but
recently those have gotten much much bigger and quite a few
new small ones have appeared. Her doctor told her that
people on mtx usually have a lot of nodules and he couldn't
explain them. He does recommend surgery on her feet if
those get much bigger.
Having just completed Rheumatology 101, I think that the
nodules are - like Ethel has told us, and Dr. Brown explains
in his book - the myco bacteria being entrapped, And, I
theorize that unless she is on AP and the antibiotic is
getting rid of the myco, she'll continue to get more and
more of these. The myco is running rampant with nothing
trying to stop it, therefore, more nodules being entrapped.
I further theorize that if she were on AP, the antibiotic
might keep the nodules in-check to a greater degree.
Now, for all of you with Rheumatology 201 under your
belts...what do you think?
Lea

Group,
Just a quick comment about water intoxication:
While it is rare, it certainly can be a problem. If you are concerned
that you are drinking too much water, simply measure your intake and
output - the same as they do to you when you're in the hospital.
Measure how much you drink and jot it down, then measure your urine
production and compare the two. They should be roughly equal.
A simpler measure is to monitor the color...
Properly hydrated, your urine should be nearly colorless to clear. The
more heavily colored it is the more nutrients you are losing due to
lack of water for processing breakdown vis a vis the hydrogen/oxygen
polarity activity. (Providing you don't have blood in the urine or other
such maladies.)
Take note that carbon dioxide robs excessive amounts of water from your
body and does other damage as well (sorry all you beer & soda drinkers)
as do coffee and some teas, as well as simple environmental toxins such
as smoke, chemicals, pollution, etc. Juices take more water to process
than they carry in (you have to get those nutrients out some how - and
that's how), as do foods, etc.
These are basic chemical reactions and not subject to individual
differences. It simply takes X+A water to process X food or food stuff -
liquid or solid.
As to diabetic thirst, that is a different animal altogether and
associated also with the other tell tale signs of that disease such as
burning defecation, itching & burning at the rectum, etc. Diabetes
usually (not always) has a genetic origination so if it is a concern, a
quick scan of the totality of the symptoms and familial background
should give you reasonable information to determine if a visit to the
doctor is necessary. Thankfully, much diabetes can be controlled by
diet.
HTH
--
Geoff Crenshaw

I have tinnitus...and really would like some relief without having to take
prescription med's. Has anyone come across an alternative answer to this
problem? I would like to increase my dosage of aspirin (taken for inflammation),
but don't want to add to the existing condition...which will drive me crazy some
day!
I think I've pretty much ruled out Meniere's Disease, even though I am prone to
bouts of vertigo from time to time. Any advise or personal experience would be
welcome!
Thanx, and be well...........Joey

This article from the Great Smokies Diagnostic Lab's newletter was
interesting and fit in with what I read recently in THE ANTI-AGING ZONE by
Dr. Barry Sears.
Linda

Well, got my blood/urine/xrays back from my recent visit to NIH. Thought I would
share with you since it looked like a slow day on the list. Anyone's opinion is
always welcome. :)
Blood work for liver/kidneys looked ok. Sed rate went from 14 back up to 32
(feels like a 100 today). No evidence they did a rheumatoid factor.
Xray results were as follows: (and this doesn't sound so good). This is also
the reason they want me on methotrexate. Dr. Chiu - how does this sound to you?
Should I have this much (or is this a lot?) damage within just a little over a
year? (what I'm currently taking and how long I've had this disease is at the
bottom of this note)
Hands:
On the right, there is diffuse osteopenia. Scattered tiny erosions are seen at
the metacarpophalangeal joints and the PIP joints. There is also a prominent
erosion involving the navicular bone. These lesions appear to have been present
on the most recent series of films from 2/99. (but they didn't indicate all of
that in their report then). The left hand appears to be now more extensively
involved than the right. Erosions in the PIP and CP joints are noted as well as
marked osteopenia and erosions involving the pisiform (that's about the way I
feel - :) and triquetrum (I think those are fancy terms for the wrist). The
lesions appear to have been present 2/99 as well (also not indicated to me back
then).
Feet:
No prior films for comparison. There is osteopenia and some hypertrophic
changes. There also is poor definiton of the base of the fifth metatarsal on the
right, which may be due to an erosion.
Ankle: MRI done here. (I had broken my ankle back in '95 - during last
6months, it has turned black and blue with some mild tenderness)
"The posterior tibialis tendon the right side appears to be somewhat flattened
in it's mid portion There is also increased signal noted within th etendon on
both the T1 and T-2 weighted sequences. This would indicate either partial
degeneration or partial tear. There is fluid noted around the proximal tendon as
well as enhancement noted in the peritendinous area both proximally and
distally. This would indicate some evidence for peritendinitis.
There is also evidence for peritendinitis around the left posterior tibialis
tendon.
Impression: 1. Peritendinitis around the right posterior tibialis tendon and to
a lesser degree around the left posterior tibialis tnedon. 2. Partial tear or
degeneration fo the right posterior tibialis tendon as described above. (aren't
we having fun?)
Note - they don't take x-rays of the knees and I'm having plenty of problems
with those - also lower back, shoulders and stiffness in neck. Other than that,
I'm a perfect specimen.
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day MWF;Zithromax 500mg T,Sa; Lodine
400mg 3x/day;Zone Diet;;Slippery Elm;Fish Oil(9 caps/day);Milk
Thistle;bromelain;boswellia;glucosamine(1500mg)
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
ICQ 18123139

Saw this on a newsgroup--I wonder what the implications of this are for us??
Anyone have any insights on this? Liz G
Contact: Charmayne Marsh
y_marsh@...
202-872/4445
American Chemical Society
Scientists say vitamin C may alleviate the body's response to stress
NEW ORLEANS, La., Aug. 22 -- Large doses of vitamin C can prevent
illness by alleviating the body's normal response to stress, according
to a scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville. This study
was described here today at a national meeting of the American Chemical
Society, the world's largest scientific society.
The study tested the effects of vitamin C on the adrenal function of
laboratory animals subjected to stress, said P. Samuel Campbell, Ph.D.,
chairman of the university's department of biological sciences. In both
animals and humans, the adrenal gland reacts to stress by releasing
corticoids, such as corticosterone and cortisol. These and other
hormones trigger the "fight or flight" reaction that allows us to spring
into action when in danger. They also suppress the immune system, the
body's first line of defense against disease.
The Alabama researchers put laboratory rats under stress by immobilizing
them for one hour a day over a three-week period. To check whether
vitamin C would reduce the production of stress hormones, the rats were
fed 200 milligrams a day, the equivalent of several grams a day for
humans. This dosage far exceeds the present recommended daily allowance
(RDA) of 60 milligrams, a figure based on the amount required to prevent
deficiency diseases such as scurvy. The study showed that vitamin C
reduced the levels of stress hormones in the blood-and also reduced
other typical indicators of physical and emotional stress, such as loss
in body weight, enlargement of the adrenal glands, and reduction in the
size of the thymus gland and the spleen, according to Campbell.
In addition, the vitamin C treatment elevated the levels of circulating
IgG antibody, the body's principal defense against systemic infection,
he said.
In the control group-rats who were not subjected to stress-vitamin C
increased the production of IgG antibody to a somewhat higher level than
it did in the stressed rats. This suggests that stress may create a
tolerance for vitamin C.
Consequently, animals-and perhaps people-who are under emotional stress
may require higher doses of vitamin C to protect immune function.
Paradoxically, the vitamin C treatment may work by suppressing
production and/or utilization of the vitamin C that naturally exists in
the adrenal cortex of humans and animals, Campbell noted. This
endogenous vitamin C appears to support the production of stress
hormones, he said.
Campbell said his results help explain other evidence of the value of
vitamin C in protecting immune function. For example, according to
reports in the medical literature, vitamin C boosted immune function in
a test group of elderly women. It also reduced the incidence of
stress-related upper-respiratory infections in marathon runners.
Recommending a sharper look at the present RDA, Campbell said he
believes that our prehistoric ancestors probably consumed large amounts
of vitamin C in a tropical diet rich in fruits. "If so, the
physiological constitution we have inherited may require doses far
larger than the present RDA to keep us healthy under varying
environmental conditions, including stress."
###

Hi, I got your letter and started writing you about our
similarities,(timewise) with RA. I got called away, and AOL shut me down, and
now I can't find your letter or the answer I was starting to write you. Could
you resend it or have you gotten rid of it by now?....Shirle RA 6/97 AP2/98

http://arthritis.about.com/mbody.htm

Keeping in mind, however, that for those who have AS or other spondylitis,
this posture would do *serious* damage and stiffness over the long-term!
Jan.

I am interested to know of any experiences with Enbrel...
Thanks
Joanne

Someone wants to know any experiences with arthritis in jaw and surgery
for it. Her daughter has JRA. If any of you can give her some support,
please do.
http://209.207.141.196/bbs1/signpunk/messages/83.sht
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Hi all,
Since the past 4 days I have been having low back pain when I get up in the
morning. Even when I take a short nap during the day, I get this pain.
Last night I tried sleeping curled up, i.e. with a rounded back and knees
bent. Even when I turned over, I tried to get the same position. And when
I got out of bed in the morning there was hardly any pain.
I thought this might of interest to those of you who are suffering from
back pain.
Wishing everybody a speedy recovery,
Zanash

Any of you guys ever want to be an osteopath? well, here's a newsgroup for ya -
Mark
And now for today's tip...
STUDENT DOCTOR ONLINE
Unless you happen to be studying osteopathic medicine, this list is
best for quiet lurking--it's another interesting peek into a world few
of us will ever encounter. Because I know you care, osteopathic
medicine was founded in 1874 by an American doctor named Andrew Taylor
Still, who believed that proper structure of the body's
musculoskeletal system enabled the body to function properly and to
resist disease by empowering the immune system. It's now a vast
discipline, and this list reflects that--it's extremely high-volume.
As of this writing, the digest option is down, so you may want to wait
until that's fixed before signing up. To subscribe, send an e-mail to
mailto:majordomo@...
with
subscribe studentdoctor
in the body of the message.

Hello Gang,
Some time ago someone posted a article about "Drug induced
Hepatitis" from taking CELEBREX. Can some one please send it to me . My
girlfriends husband took CELEBREX for 3 months for knee pain . His liver
count was high and has now been told he has gotten Hepatitis. Please
help with any info you can.
Take care and best of health, Yoly!!

Kyla, have you checked Dr Jefferies
protocol for cortisol deficiency? It is
detailed in his book: SAFE USES OF
OF CORTISOL
Here is the URL for his web site:
Also he says many people have mild adrenal insuffficiency and not know it.
Address:http://www.people.virginia.edu/~wj2m/
REGARDS,
ray
-

Hello again all,
Sorry to pester you all again, but I was wondering if anyone
knows whether one can be tested for drug allergies? Several
months ago I took two different new medicines around the same
time and had a severe "serum sickness" type drug reaction (a
reaction that triggered my arthritis after 13 years in remission,
I must add) Well, to this day I have no idea which one of the
drugs it was that caused it. Just wondering if there might be a
way to find out?
Thanks,
Kyla

Hello all,
I want to apologize beforehand if this email is too off topic,
but I really need some advice regarding a medical disorder that I
am dealing with in addition to my arthritis.
As I've briefly mentioned in the past, I have an adrenal gland
disorder called "late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia". I
was born without an adrenal enzyme that converts certain
precursor hormones into cortisol, leaving me cortisol deficient.
What happens then is that my adrenal gland pumps out excess male
hormones to try to compensate for the cortisol deficiency. So I
not only suffer with cortisol deficiency problems, but also side
effects from excess male hormones, such as acne, mild hair growth
and hair loss.
The usual treatment for this condition is to replace the missing
cortisol with low dose hydrocortisone pills. Very effective when
the dosing is accurate, but it is almost impossible to replace
cortisol exactly as the adrenals glands pump out cortisol anytime
you experience a stressful moment, are fighting illness..etc. So,
my endocrinologist wants to put me on an anti-androgen pill that
blocks the effects of the excess male hormones on my skin and
hair. And to be honest, I am sick of being 26 years old and
dealing with acne and hair loss. These problems have plagued me
since I was 14 years old and totally destoyed my self-esteem. I
am almost willing to do or take anything to bring my self esteem
back up.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just saying "okay, give me
the pills" and all is well. The drug he wants to put me is called
flutamide (Eulexin) or bicalutamide (Casodex). These two
anti-androgens are used commonly in men with advanced prostate
cancer, to block the stimulating effects of male hormones on the
cancerous prostate. As with any drugs, both of these pills have
various possible side effects, most of which are fairly mild,
such as mild diarrhea, photosensitivty and nausea. But the reason
I am reluctant to take either one of them is the fact that some
people have gotten hepatitis, elevated liver enzymes and
permanent liver damage while taking them. I don't know how
commonly this occurs, but when I read that a few people have died
from liver damage while taking this drug, I became very scared,
yet extremely saddened and disappointed that I won't be able to
manage my current problems if I don't.
I suppose I wanted to ask all of you, as I know that many of you
have had to make important decisions with regards to what drugs
to take (or not take) to manage your arthritis over the years.
It's been left up to me to decide what to do and I've been trying
to weight the pros and cons of taking the drug. If I choose not
to take it, I'll be extremely miserable and continue to hate who
I see in the mirror everyday and watch more and more of my hair
fall down the drain as time goes on. And I wonder if maybe I'd be
one of the many people who never experience liver problems while
on it. And yet if I decide to take it, I may look and feel a
whole lot better and my self-esteem will most definately improve,
but what if, God forbid, I end up destroying my liver? Then I'd
kick myself for putting my vanity before my long term health. So,
as you can see, I feel stuck. Like I could lose either way.
I am going to a url for those of you who know your stuff about
drugs and how they work and with enough time to possibly read the
drug info on Casodex (which I have been able to find myself
online) and Eulexin. Or perhaps you may have some good drug
reference books of your own and could do a quick look up. It
would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd really love to know what you
think, if you would be so kind as to write to me personally with
your comments.
http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/euflex.html
Have any of you ever experienced elevated liver enzymes from
taking a particular drug? If so, did it cause permanent liver
damage?
I feel kinda crazy-silly for asking you all such questions on a
very off topic subject, but I really didn't know where else to
turn during this difficult time, except to people like you who
have been on serious drugs yourselves during the course of your
rheumatic disease and who seem very wise when it comes to making
important decisions about your health.
Again, I apologize to anyone who may find my post a little
unacceptable for such a list. :)

Hello all,
I want to apologize beforehand if this email is too off topic,
but I really need some advice regarding a medical disorder that I
am dealing with in addition to my arthritis.
As I've briefly mentioned in the past, I have an adrenal gland
disorder called "late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia". I
was born without an adrenal enzyme that converts certain
precursor hormones into cortisol, leaving me cortisol deficient.
What happens then is that my adrenal gland pumps out excess male
hormones to try to compensate for the cortisol deficiency. So I
not only suffer with cortisol deficiency problems, but also side
effects from excess male hormones, such as acne, mild hair growth
and hair loss.
The usual treatment for this condition is to replace the missing
cortisol with low dose hydrocortisone pills. Very effective when
the dosing is accurate, but it is almost impossible to replace
cortisol exactly, as the adrenals glands pump out cortisol
anytime
you experience a stressful moment, are fighting illness..etc. So,
my endocrinologist wants to put me on an anti-androgen pill that
blocks the effects of the excess male hormones on my skin and
hair. And I would love nothing more than to do that. These
problems
have plagued me since I was 14 years old and totally destoyed my
self-esteem. I am almost willing to do or take anything to bring
my
self esteem back up.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as just saying "okay, give me
the pills" and all is well. The drug he wants to put me is called
flutamide (Eulexin) or bicalutamide (Casodex). These two
anti-androgens are used commonly in men with advanced prostate
cancer, to block the stimulating effects of male hormones on the
cancerous prostate. As with any drugs, both of these pills have
various possible side effects, most of which are fairly mild,
such as mild diarrhea, photosensitivty and nausea. But the reason
I am reluctant to take either one of them is the fact that some
people have gotten hepatitis, elevated liver enzymes and
permanent liver damage while taking them. I don't know how
commonly this occurs, but when I read that a few people have died
from liver damage while taking this drug, I became very scared,
yet extremely saddened and disappointed that I won't be able to
manage my current problems if I don't take it.
I suppose I wanted to ask your opinion, as I know that many of
you
have had to make important decisions with regards to what drugs
to take (or not take) to manage your arthritis over the years.
It's been left up to me to decide what to do and I've been trying
to weight the pros and cons of taking the drug. If I choose not
to take it, I'll be extremely miserable and continue to hate who
I see in the mirror everyday and watch more and more of my hair
fall down the drain as time goes on. And I wonder if maybe I'd be
one of the many people who never experience liver problems while
on it. And yet if I decide to take it, I may look and feel a
whole lot better and my self-esteem will most definately improve,
but what if, God forbid, I end up destroying my liver? Then I'd
kick myself for putting my vanity before my long term health. So,
as you can see, I feel stuck. Like I could lose either way.
I am including a url for those of you who know your stuff about
drugs and how they work and who might have enough time to
possibly read the
drug info on Casodex (which I have been able to find myself
online) and Eulexin. Or perhaps you may have some good drug
reference books of your own and could do a quick look up. It
would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd really love to know what you
think, if you would be so kind as to write to me personally with
your comments. I guess what I really want to know is, would you
take these two drugs yourself? :)
http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/euflex.html
Have any of you ever experienced elevated liver enzymes from
taking a particular drug? If so, did it cause permanent liver
damage?
I feel kinda crazy-silly for asking you all such questions on a
very off topic subject, but I really didn't know where else to
turn during this difficult time, except to people like you who
have been on serious drugs yourselves during the course of your
rheumatic disease and who seem very wise when it comes to making
important decisions about your health.
Again, I apologize to anyone who may find my post a little
unacceptable for such a list. :)
God bless,
Kyla

Up until this century, people drank water from their well, milk from their cows,
some alcohol from their local still and perhaps some other beverages according
to country and area. Mostly they drank water. Even tea and coffee only became
available last century.
Now there are so many choices of drinks in the supermarkets, most of them
unhealthy. Many people only drink Coke and soft drinks, or diet drinks full of
aspartame. They are chronically dehydrated and all their body systems are
affected. Someone we know only drinks tea and coffee (which are diuretics) and
was recently admitted to hospital with dehydration.
I think we should go back to water being the basic drink, with other drinks
being only occasional. Then we'd probably get enough water a day without even
thinking much about it.
Chris.

Isn't that encouraging? The climate of opinion on antibiotic therapy has
certainly changed in the last three years.
He is also correct that you need an anti-inflammatory to keep the inflammation
down while the antibiotic kicks in.
Dr. Mercola said recently that Relafen is one of the safest. I'd give the
methotrexate a miss. Some of the group are using Enbrel and Arava so might be
able to help you with their experience.
Your other choice would be to use one of the herbal anti-inflammatories. Some of
the group are using RA-SPES with good results and other choices are listed in
Dr. Linda Martin's clinic notes at www.rheumatic.org/martin.htm.
Keep us posted,
Chris.

From kaehler@...
Subject: Re: ANTIBIOTICS TO TREAT RHEUMATIC DISEASES
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:04:10 +100
I try it again, thank you for your e-mail, Chris. Since two and a
half years I know about my rheumotoid arthritis. Since two
years I make a "anthroposophic" (Founder: Rudolf Steiner) therapy
here in Hamburg including an individual diet. It has become much
better than in the beginning but my dream is of course to become
really healthy. At the moment I still take the corticosteroide
prednisolon (3 mg). In addition, I do not eat meat, tomatoes,
aubergines, oranges, paprika, milk, sugar and white bread. At the
moment I also use orthomolecular medicine but unfortunately it
is very expensive. The illness began with heavy pain in my muscles
(both arms and shoulders) and continued with inflammation in the
middle feet joints, right knee and in the hand joints. Furthermore,
the middle finger of the right hand has become thick at an early
stage. Can I receive help from you. I am looking forward to your
answer, Stella Kähler.

A business associate passed this on to me. Both my lap top and desk top
needed to be changed, and I thought I had downloaded all the
downloadable stuff.
Gary
You may think your PC is "Y2K" compliant, and some little tests may
have actually affirmed that your hardware is compliant, and you may even
have a little company sticker affixed to your system saying "Y2K
Compliant"...but you'll be surprised that Windows may still crash unless
you do this simple exercise below.
I know that I had not thought of this and my home computer and work
computer would have failed Jan1, 1999. Easy fix but something Microsoft
seems to have missed in certifying their software as Y2Kcompliant.This
is simple to do, and but VERY important.

It might help to know that this mailing list is set up to 'reply to sender' when
you just hit 'reply'. It was originally set up to 'reply to list' but then we
got over 100 messages per day and tons of complaints so it was switched around.
So yes, if you want to send to the whole list, you have to overwrite the
sender's name with 'rheumatic@onelist.com' on most mailers.
Chris.
original message this way. If I just click on "Reply", the only addr which

Hi , people ! I'm new here and I've recently been diagnosed with RA. Although
I've had it for at least two years, mabey three. Kept thinking if I ignored the
symptoms they would go away. HA! not!! I've seen a rheumie recently. First
visit was a month and a half ago. First thing he did was ask me if I heard of
antibiotic therapy and prescribed it . Said to start it come back in a month
after X-rays come back. Well I have just seen him again and he says X-rays
show definate RA with some joint erosion. His recommendation : start another
treatment to get the inflamation under control while maintaining the
antibiotics. He offered me four choices Meth, Enbrel, Arava, or Remacade. I
quickly told him I did'nt like my choices , please give me more!!!! He said
unfortunately, that was all he had to offer. My question to this group is what
would be the best of these choices ? I have researched these to some extent
they all have pros and cons. Which would yall choose if you were just starting
on any meds. The only regular med besides mino I take is ibuprofen. Any advice,
suggestions, info, or just a nice hello would be appreciated. Thanks

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2317907,00.html
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/319/7205/304
Here is a article form the British Medical Journal that describes what could
happen when grain allergies are presumed without verification: "Physiological
effects of starvation interpreted as food allergy."

http://hyperion.advanced.org/15215/Foe/Dehydration/index.html
Here is one reference to sunken eyes I came across....see under symptoms

http://www.nutritionreporter.com/b_vitamins_help.html
B Vitamins and arthritis

hi this is marie from maine , three weeks ago, i fell off cliff on rocks i
was in two hosp, i have raynaunds, CRIPPLING RA fingers, sclerodermar
bad harding of the skin 3 DEASES in one well when i went to two HOSP<
///ex RAYS////// 9 DR. i was down so bad i coulding do nothing get up out
of bed walk exc.....SS none knew meok// i always had a bad lower bk but i
throught it was vac cleaning /well would you believed///that these DRs from
two hosp,/ said they asked me how has my back been always out of place/ they
told me they did all kinds of TESTS they never saw a back so bad of RA. it
so bad they dont know how i do anything --------- i said it must be the
LIFEGUAID i take its sul.lslament for RA or JONTS the best thing i
can tell you get into swiming lesson fast, take good SUPlement yes
they cost, but if you can fine some way to get them go fo it REMMEBER
EVERYBODY DIFERENT BUT I BEEN THUR HELL BAD BUT WATER EX . it HURTS<
SULLements. so i tried it feel dam good except fingers, wow they dont hurt
only when bending all natural food product part of your daily health
care regime ANTIOXDANT THERAPY. your ans, try it what have you got to
loose///////but remmber, asked your dr, mine ///forget it i went to drug
store they know more than dr,, STARLIGHT INTERNATIONAL< ask around, be
cheaper where you live, if not terry collins has over 300 customers now had
them for four years, people are happy/ walking driving c an GET OUT OF BED
NOWgo for it the best i can tell ya i know ask my town people iam well known
very good person well known ill pray for ya i know what pain was is,
marie oh yes i do hope you luck

Hello,
I'm exploring Outlook 2000 NewGroup capabilities.
I'd sure appreciate any help someone can give me to convert your newsgroup
from EMail to a newgroup. I want to do this to use some of the thread
capabilities and to separate your mail from my normal E-Mail.
Thanks in advance. Dave Wood

Dear friends,
I recently reported about my recent doctor visit and general update. I am
about 80% better than I was last year. I started symptoms in February 98
and began AP in May of 98.
Today I got my lab results back. I'm a little disappointed. You guys are
probably going to shake your head that I'm complaining about my low
numbers, but my RA factor doubled. It started out 25, went to 24 in October
and is now 50. SED rate went from 4 to 0 and now 2 (I'm not complaining
about that one, I saw some of your posts about very high numbers.)
My doctor told me that he was pleased with my progress. He said that he has
another patient who was diagnosed about the same time I was and that
person's disease progessed much worse than mine. I asked if he had more
people on AP and he said only a couple. Since it wasn't a standard
treatment he wasn't pushing it. He said that he believes it will be shown
to be an effective treatment for a certain population.
Be well,
Ute

Thanks everyone who responded. Somehow the "No mail and e-mail" box was
checked in the onelist. So all e-mail from rheumatic one list is coming in once
again, just fine.
Thanks.
P.S. Liz G I did check the boxes, that was the breakthrough, thanks.
Martha

You may have to highlight,copy, and paste the end part of that link I sent
on folic acid into the address block of your browser. Looks like it didn't
capture the whole link.
Mark

A good link:
http://www.healthshop.com/healthfact/default.asp?healthfacts_id=342&category
_id=233&referid=tw
Mark

The Merck Manual for has been published for 100 years and has become the
world's most widely used general medical text. It's now available free of
charge on the web.
DRUG INFORMATION - Merck Manual
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/

I do not know what is wrong. I have not unsubscribed. I want to stay in
touch with everyone. Have not gotten e-mails in days from rheumatic@onelist.com
Is there anything wrong on my part here? Any clues.
Thanks Martha from St. Augustine, Fla.

Hi Folks,
I've mentioned before that I'm doing phone work now to earn my keep and
I have yet to get my voice to last more than an hour at a stretch. And
even that is pushing it. I also have yet to last more than a total of
5.5 hours over the course of 12 hours.
Friday a customer told me about a product called Vocal Rescue. I think
it's by a company named Satori or Satori Teas. Unfortunately I didn't
write it down, and the satoriteas website is gone. I had never heard of
the company, but every time I search for Vocal Rescue they come up and
it sounds familiar, like what the customer told me.
Has anybody ever heard of this product? It is supposed to be an herbal
spray used by public speakers, etc. to keep their voice when they have
to talk for many hours. If not this product, do you know of another?
Sucking cough drops and/or vitamin C lozenges isn't taking me past this
5 hour limit and I desperately need to get to 7-8 hours a day. So
something else please? I've started on decongestents which is helping a
little, since a lot of the problem is the post-nasal drip hoarseness I
think.
So that's what I've explored. Anyone with any suggestions or experience
in this area, your help is desperately needed as I'm having a very hard
time financially because of this limitation.
Thanks - Jan K

To Whom It May Concern:
I would appreciate it if you would delete me from your Rheumatic list.
Thank you,
Docfungus1@...

Hi,
Glad you are doing well and that you are back with us. Email to
your address bounced back.
Denise
NC

Dear Group:
The enclosed URL's contain articles on the herb ginger which I have used
successfully for about a year. I buy powdered China #1 ginger in bags along
with powdered turmeric from: -------- http://www.penzeys.com
Added to warm apple juice, it makes a
drink that can knock your sox off. Increase
the ginger slowly til you get use to it.

Mark,
I take the PB 8's and I can get 120 for $20 at the vitamin shoppe.
Our Newfoundland gets one/day as does one of our cats who has a
problem with diarrhea.
Denise
NC

Please delete me from your e-mail list. Thanks

For those of you in the Baltimore area, here's a lecture series being put on
my Dr. Mercola. Perhaps you could convince your doc to go check it out.
Rheumatoid Arthritis Lecture
I will be lecturing on the use of nutrition and antibiotics in the treatment
of rheumatoid arthritis at the Great Lakes College of Clinical Medicine
(GLCCM) on Friday September 25, 1999 in Baltimore, Maryland. The course is
only open to physicians. The entire three-day program will be focused on the
alternative treatments of arthritis. I am particularly excited about meeting
Dr. Classen whose information on vaccine induced injury I have put in
previous newsletters. Interested physicians can contact GLCCM at
1-800-286-6013.
Mark

Has anyone heard of "Traumica"? A friend said she is taking it for her severe
carpal tunnel, and after 5 days, she has reported like 90% relief.
Joey

Subj: Re: [rheumatic] RAS & SAMe
Date: 8/11/99
To: denny@...
hi to everyone,
I'm back after quite a long time away-just got too busy to keep up with
everything I had to in my life. I have have been lurking for a while and I
am reminded about how much information is available to us through one
another. The internet is revolutionizing health care in more ways than one.
I am presently on minocin and RAS. I do think that RAS is remarkable,
however I am having some difficulty - due to waking up early and not feeling
well rested. I took geoff' s advice and started taking it earlier in the
evening. However, I think that since I am no longer taking it on an empty
stomach it is not working as well - my RF was 398 after being on RAS for over
2 months.
Just wondering if anyone has tried SAMe. apparently it is pretty popular in
Europe. I'd be interested in others' comments about it.
Blessings to all, Jamie, RA 24 yrs; AP 3 yrs

http://www.pathfinder.com/drweil/qa_answer/0,3189,1603,00.html
Mark

GROUP, Someone posted the name of an herb that was good for increasing the
appetite. Could you please post it again or respond to me personally? Thank
you. Carol/Piney/Canada

True Story! Read now!
I know this guy whose neighbor, a young man, was home
recovering from having been served a rat in his bucket of Kentucky
Fried Chicken.
So anyway, one day he went to sleep and when he awoke he was in
his bathtub and it was full of ice and he was sore all over.
When he got out of the tub he realized that HIS KIDNEYS HAD
BEEN STOLEN and and he saw a note on his mirror that said
"Call 911!" But he was afraid to use his phone because it was
connected to his computer, and there was a virus on his computer
that would destroy his hard drive if he opened an e-mail entitled
"Join the crew!"
He knew it wasn't a hoax because he himself was a computer
programmer who was working on software to save us from
armageddon when the year 2000 rolls around. His program will
prevent a global disaster in which all the computers get together
and distribute the $600 Neiman Marcus cookie recipe under the
leadership of Bill Gates. (It's true - I read it all last week in a
mass
e-mail from BILL GATES HIMSELF, who was also promising
me a free Disney World vacation and $5,000 if I would forward
the e-mail to everyone I know.)
The poor man then tried to call 911 from a pay phone to report his
missing kidneys, but reaching into the coin-return slot he got
jabbed with an HIV-infected needle around which was wrapped a
note that said, "Welcome to the world of AIDS."
Luckily he was only a few blocks from the hospital - the one,
actually, where that little boy who is dying of cancer is, the one
whose last wish is for everyone in the world to send him an e-mail
and the American Cancer Society has agreed to pay him a nickel
for every e-mail he receives. I sent him two e-mails and one of
them was a bunch of x's and o's in the shape of an angel (if you
get it and forward it to twenty people you will have good luck but
ten people you will only have okay luck and if you send it to less
than ten people you will have BAD LUCK FOR SEVEN YEARS).
So anyway the poor guy tried to drive himself to the hospital, but
on the way he noticed another car driving along without his lights
on. To be helpful, he flashed his lights at him and was promptly
shot as part of a gang initiation.
And it's a little-known fact that the Y1K problem caused the Dark
Ages.

Hi,
When you rub your eyes(very lightly) or pass over them, you can feel
the position of the eye in the eye socket. My eyes used to protrude
more, now they are way back, barely protruding.
I did get to talk with the nurse at the doctor's office. She said
she had never heard of such a thing.
In my right eye, I have two black lines, off to the side, that form
what reminds me of a rain drop. I can still see it with my eyes closed.
I am taking bilberry, A&D, and collagen type II. The collagen info
states it may help with the loss of eye collagen.
Denise
NC

Thanks everyone; I feel a lot more confident about my opthalmologist visit.
Be well, Joey

Curious as to how many of you have lower back pain and have been diagnosed
with RA? I continue to have low back pain - all the docs dismissed it on my
last visit - blamed it on me favoring other parts of my body that were
painful and probably throwing something out of whack in the process. Not
sure I buy that. Maybe it's my mattress, although it lies on a board
(slats)frame, not a box spring. It's not a debilitating pain, but it does
remain painful and stiff, especially after sitting and I notice it
immediately upon standing. Takes me a while to straighten up.
Mark

With one of my previous posts I might have given the wrong impression,
the nutritionist told me to drink 2 quarts of water aday NOT the gallon
I was drinking. I have always drunk at least 2 quarts aday so with all
this drink more water and esp when I drank it at room temp I drank alot
more. Anyway she thinks I may have water intoxication, I think that's
what she called it. Anyway with it you actually feel thirsty even thou
your drinking way more water than you should. Remember along with this
I'd drink a pot of coffee, glass of wine and generally a beer or two.
Anyway today I will only drink 8 glasses of water I put two quarts in a
container this morning and that's all I get---after that I guess I HAVE
to drink beer. A girl's gotta do what a girls gotta do!
Julie

Dear Group:
The best way to optimize health is to be sure that we oxygenate every cell in
our body. The more oxygen we have in our system, the more energy we produce.
Today, this is more important than ever before because of a general deficiency
of oxygen intake. Insufficient oxygen means insufficient biological energy
that can result in anything from mild fatigue to life-threatening disease. The
link between insufficient oxygen and disease has been firmly established. Deep
breathing is an excellent way to increase oxygen uptake. The next time you are
taking your daily walk, try deep breathing in on the count of 6, hold for the
count of 6, then exhale on the count of 6. Repete for the entire walk. You
will notice the difference. The following URL's contain helpful articles on
this important subject:

Recently someone posted information on the possible cardiac danger related
to Celebrex. Could you please give that information again? Thanks Brenda
RA9 years AP 2years

Contact: Dr Richard Sperling
508 824 3872
British Society of Immunology
Seafood On The Menu For Rheumatoid Arthritis Sufferers
We have long been advised to reduce the amount of saturated fat in our
diets and to make sure that we eat polyunsaturates instead. But now it
seems that the type of polyunsaturated fat could also be important, if
you suffer from an inflammatory disease like rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
At the British Society for Immunology Annual Congress in Brighton this
week, Dr Richard Sperling of the Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston,
USA will describe how altering the type of fat in the diet can alter the
immune system's inflammatory response, with benefits for the patient.
Neutrophils are the most common type of white blood cell. They are found
in large numbers at the site of inflammation in RA and inflammatory
bowel disease. They have a number of pro-inflammatory effects.
Neutrophils make a molecule called leukotriene B4 (LTB4) which plays a
critical role in promoting inflammation. The starting material they use
is a polyunsaturated fatty acid called arachidonic acid, which in turn
is derived from the types of polyunsaturated fatty acids found in
land-based plants and animals.
Marine plants and animals contain quite different fatty acids from their
land-based equivalents, for example eicosapentaenoic acid and
docosahexaenoic acid. These fatty acids can take the place of
arachidonic acid in the neutrophil's LTB4 manufacturing process,
resulting in slightly different end products. These products have a less
inflammatory effect than LTB4 itself.
Dr Sperling and his colleagues have shown that dietary eicosapentaenoic
acid reduces the production of LTB4 by neutrophils, both from healthy
donors and patients with inflammatory disorders.
In addition, a diet rich in eicosapentaenoic acid and other
marine-derived fatty acids has been shown to have other beneficial
effects on neutrophil activity: neutrophils are less likely to migrate
to the site of inflammation, and to release other molecules and enzymes
which cause damage at the site of inflammation.
A number of studies have shown that diets enriched in marine fish oils
have a modest beneficial effect in patients with diseases such as RA and
inflammatory bowel disease. Dr Sperling's results suggest that this is
because of the calming effect these oils have on neutrophil activity.

When I post before about my appt with the nutritionalist I forgot to
mention what she said about olive leaf. She thought you should take it
only when you thought you had a yeast problem and then you should take 6
aday for 6 weeks then go off it. This is to make sure it stays
effective. This will also save me money once I get rid of this yeast I
can save the rest of my case from east parks.
Julie

Evidence has been found that William Tell a