Auto-immune diseases

Has anyone gotten an answer from a Doctor as to why RA causes such stiffness
during sleep, and prolonged periods of inactivity? I have asked 3 Drs. and
none have an answer only saying it is a symptom of the RA. I never had it in
the early years of my RA or during 13 and 1/2 years on Mtx but since quitting
it my stiffness is horrendous.
Could it be the Fibromyalgia that came on later?
Anita
RA 26 years, Fibro, AP 17 months.

An inspirational article that counters those who would malign the
Founders of our country.
Today children are more likely to learn that the Founders are just a
collection of dead, white, slave-owning aristocrats.
The Declaration of Independence:
Few Americans are aware of the tremendous sacrifices made by the brave
and selfless men who signed the Declaration of Independence. Have you
ever wondered what happened to those men who signed the Declaration of
Independence?
Five signers were captured by British as traitors and were tortured
before they died.
Twelve had their homes ransacked or burned.
Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary army.
Another had two sons captured.
Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or the hardships of war. What
kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven
were merchants. Nine were farmers and large plantation owners-men of
means and well educated. But they signed the Declaration of
Independence, knowing full well the penalty would be death if they were
captured. They signed and pledged their lives, their fortunes and their
sacred honor. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader,
saw his ships swept from the seas by British navy. He sold his home and
properties to pay his debts and died in rags.
Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move
his family almost constantly. He served in Congress without pay and his
family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken and poverty was
his reward. Vandals or soldiers or both looted the properties of Ellery,
Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Hetward, Rutledge and Middleton.
Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed
his wife, after which she died within a few months.
At the Battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that British
General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters.
The owner quickly urged General Washington to open fire on the dwelling.
The home was destroyed. Nelson died a bankrupt man.
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13
children fled for their lives. His fields and grist mill were laid
waste. For more than a year, he lived in the forests and in caves,
returning home after the war to find his wife dead and his children
vanished. A few weeks later, he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.
Morris and Livingston suffered similar fates.
Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These
were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians; they were soft-spoken men
of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more.
They pledged:
"For the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of the Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other
our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor."
The 56 Signers of the Declaration of Independence are;
Connecticut New York
Huntington, Samuel
Floyd, William
Sherman, Roger
Lewis, Francis
Williams, William
Livingston, Philip
Wolcott, Oliver
Morris, Lewis
Delaware North Carolina
McKean, Thomas
Hewes, Joseph
Read, George
Hooper, William
Rodney, Caesar
Penn, John
Georgia Pennsylvania
Gwinnett, Button
Clymer, George
Hall, Lyman
Franklin, Benjamin
Walton, George
Morris, Robert
Maryland
Morton, Robert
Carroll, Charles
Ross, George
Chase, Samuel
Rush, Benjamin
Paca, William
Smith, James
Stone, Thomas
Taylor, George
Massachusetts
Wilson, James
Adams, John
Rhode Island
Adams, Samuel
Ellery, William
Gerry, Elbridge
Hopkins, Stephen
Hancock, John
South Carolina
Paine, Robert T.
Heyward, Thomas Jr.
New Hampshire
Lynch, Thomas Jr.
Bartlett, Josiah
Middleton, Arthur
Thornton, Matthew
Rutledge, Edward
Whipple, William
Virginia New Jersey
Braxton, Carter
Clark, Abraham
Harrison, Benjamin
Hart, John
Jefferson, Thomas
Hopkinson, Francis
Lee, Francis Lightfoot
Stockton, Richard
Lee, Richard Henry
Witherspoon, John
Nelson, Thomas Jr.
Wythe, George
Source: Veteran of Foreign Wars Magazine, June/July 1999 Happy Fourth of
July, to those not only in the United States of America, but also to
those around the world for whom this light of freedom, tarnished though
it may be, still shines.
GC

I seem to recall that someone on the list was taking Depo-Provera. If so,
you might want to read Dr. Mercola's latest newsletter. He has a rather
horrifying story there of a lady who took this.
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day; Lodine 400mg 3x/day
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

When I opened his newsletter in MS Word, it was quite large like you
mentioned. I then clicked on "View", noticed it was set at Page Layout, so
changed it to "Normal". After that it was fine.
Your experience may be different. :)
Mark

Is anyone experiencing a problem with Dr. Mercola's newsletter? The print
is so large that I have to scroll from side to side to read each line of
text. I tried decreasing the size, but it doesn't work. Any suggestions?
Linda

I forgot that not everyone is on AOL and thus need the web site address so
here they are:
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/930582364.html
http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/10e4ba.htm
Carol E from NY

I thought this was interesting regarding the use of antiobiotic treatment for
MS and Gulf War Syndrome due to mycoplasma bacteria.
<A HREF="http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/930582364.html"
Antibiotic for Gulf War Syndrome Planned
</A
<A HREF="http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/10e4ba.htm"
Multiple Sclerosis
</A
Carol E from NY

Hi folks well Went to the emergency hospital and had my eye checked out. The
DR was supposed to call to give permission, but never did (not suprising)
they looked at my eye and could see nothing wrong, but told me to go to my
eye dr on Tuesday. I also need permission to do that, so hopefully I will get
it.
Just wanted to let you know I am trying to get it together. Kelly
PS they were very nice at the hospital and the receptionist has RA and so I
gave her the link to the rheumatic .org

Group, I've really struggled with myself not to send this to all of you, but
I decided finally to give in to this "Inner Nag" 'cause I feel it may give
most of you a little joy. Happy Fourth, Billie

Group:
I accidentally deleted all my email received on Thursday, July 1. I had
originally saved some that I was going to respond to, but somehow deleted
that too. So if you wrote me and asked a question that day, please resend if
you still want a response. Sorry.
Bill E.

Just in time for Mother's Day comes news that maternal cells linger in a
child's body for years after birth. In some cases, researchers suggest,
these cellular mementos of Mom trigger autoimmune diseases in the child.
A few years ago, researchers made the converse discovery: A child's
cells can stow away in a mother for decades after pregnancy
(SN:2/10/96,p.85). Women with the autoimmune disease scleroderma are
more likely to have these persistent cells in their bloodstream than
women without the disease (SN:8/2/97,p.71). This raises the possibility
that the fetal cells somehow interfere with the mother's immune system.
Now, J. Lee Nelson of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in
Seattle and her colleagues report that boys with the autoimmune disease
lupus have more maternal cells circulating in their bloodstream than
boys without lupus do.
"Bidirectional trafficking of these cells is much more common than
anyone ever anticipated," says study collaborator Diana W. Bianchi of
the New England Medical Center in Boston.
Immune-system proteins, which determine whether a transplant patient
will accept or reject a donated organ, influence how the body reacts to
these foreign cells, Nelson says. In mothers with scleroderma and sons
with lupus, the host's immune system is compatible with, but not
identical to, the immune system of the cell source, she finds. Those
without the disease showed greater differences between mother and child.
"Maybe autoimmune diseases are not entirely self versus self," says
Nelson. Cells whose immune-system proteins differ only slightly from
the host's may circumvent the body's first-line defenses but then
trigger disease by an as yet unknown mechanism.
Women may both inherit cells from their own mothers and pick up
additional cells from each pregnancy. The resulting multitude of
interlopers may help explain why women are more likely than men to
suffer from autoimmune diseases, Nelson says.
Mere presence of someone else's cells isn't enough to disrupt the immune
system, comments Carol Arlett of Thomas Jefferson University in
Philadelphia. Based on new findings and her own research, she estimates
that 90 percent of the population harbors foreign cells.

Please take my name off your mailing list.
Thanks,
Myrna

The math teacher saw that little Johnny wasn't paying attention in
class. She called on him and said, "Johnny! What are 2 and 4 and 28
and 44?" Little Johnny quickly replied, "NBC, CBS, HBO and the Cartoon
Network!"
***********************************************************************
At Sunday School they were teaching how God created everything,
including human beings. Little Johnny, a child in the kindergarten
class, seemed especially intent when they told him how Eve was
created out of one of Adam's ribs. Later in the week his mother
noticed him lying down as though he were ill, and said, "Johnny
what is the matter?" Little Johnny responded, "I have a pain in
my side. I think I'm going have a wife."
***********************************************************************
Little Johnny's kindergarten class was on a field trip to their
local police station where they saw pictures, tacked to a bulletin
board, of the 10 most wanted criminals. One of the youngsters pointed
to a picture and asked if it really was the photo of a wanted person.
"Yes," said the policeman. "The detectives want very badly to capture
him." Little Johnny asked, "Why didn't you keep him when you took his
picture?"
***********************************************************************
A truck driver used to amuse himself by running over lawyers he
would see walking down the side of the road. Every time he would
see a lawyer walking along the road, he would swerve to hit him,
and there would be a loud "THUMP" and then he would swerve back on
the road.
One day, as the truck driver was driving along he saw a priest
hitch hiking. He thought he would do a good turn and pulled the
truck over.
He asked the priest, "Where are you going, Father?".
"I'm going to the church 5 miles down the road!", replied the
priest.
"No problem, Father! I'll give you a lift. Climb in the truck".
The happy priest climbed into the passenger seat and the truck
driver continued down the road. Suddenly the truck driver saw a
lawyer walking down the road and instinctively he swerved to hit
him. But then he remembered there was a priest in the truck with
him, so at the last minute he swerved back to the road, narrowly
missing the lawyer. However even though he was certain he missed
the lawyer, he still heard a loud "THUD". Not understanding where
the noise came from he glanced in his mirrors and when he didn't
see anything, he turned to the priest and said, "I'm sorry Father.
I almost hit that lawyer".
"That's okay", replied the priest. "I got him with the door!

Check out the part for rheumatoid arthritis!!! I'm amazed this site
carries our protocol.
cooky

Hi group:
I don't know if anyone can help me with this problem, but thought I'd ask
anyway.
My cousin was just diagnosed with MS. I was hoping there was a support
group similar to ours for people with MS. He knows nothing about it and
need comfort as well.
Thanks, Sandy

Does anyone else have ITP? I've been on the AP since March of 98. I
was diagnosed with ITP (low platelet count) in January of 97. I began
the antibiotics because of Lupus symptoms that had started in February
of 98.
I still have the infection that started this whole thing (UTI) - had it
since 94. I have tremendously improved since last year.
I was just wondering if anyone else has ITP. I know that it is caused
from this mycoplasma also.
Thanks,
Rebecca

There is a test for just microbiology, so if you're not interested in
the other stuff the CDSA covers, it is probably a lot cheaper. I
noticed different drugs/herbs on my 1996 version than on my 1998 test
results, so call them (they have an 800 #) if you want to know about a
particular drug vis-a-vis Klebsiella to make sure it's one they test
for. And, Denise called them and found that you get different info back
if you do the test on your own, so double-check that if you are after
the bacterial sensitivity panel. Deb

Hi everyone.
I think I have good news but doctor (new to AP) is not so sure!
After 7 weeks on AP with minocin my labs changed.
Before AP: After 7 weeks minocin:
Sed 42 Sed 76
RF 290-320 RF 209
C-Reactive Protein: Normal
So I think it's great. I read it as the bugs are getting stirred up (higher
sed now)and RF going down as a result of the AP therapy.
But doctor thinks it may be allergic reaction to minocin based solely on the
higher sed rate now though he attributes the lower factor to the minocin too.
He did say to stay on it at same dose and watch for rashes but I don't have
any (had a tiny one on one spot on arm the first week which left in two,
three days and am fine now for weeks on M100 W150 F100 dose).
SO WHAT"S HAPPENING? AM I ALLERGIC? OR AM I DOING GOOD?
I think I'm doing good. Feel pretty okay too except for wrist and one finger.
Please give my your input. I don't want to harm myself though I love the
minocin.
I am going away July fourth and will go thru mail after return on Monday.
I hope you all enjoy your holiday, feel good, and thanks for being there.
I can't tell you how much it means to me.
Susan

Hi group!
Well, I've been back one week actually. Dr. F put me back on minocin
MWF, 100mg. And Zithromax on Tues and Sat., 500 mg.
I've had one week of the therapy only and I want you to know that I am
in the worst herx I have ever experienced. I cant hardly walk. If I had a
wheel chair, I'd be using it, but it would have to be an electric one
because my wrists are so involved too.
Dr. F is a very nice man and seemed very thorough. (Did I spell that
correctly?) He also wants me to take about $200 worth of supplements per
month too. I really cannot afford that much though.
I have very much inflammation. Worst places are my feet and wrists.
Shoulders and hips are great, thank goodness. My Creatine was high, but I
cant remember exactly how high, my sed rate was 85, my RF 666, so there
really is alot of inflammation. He also wants me to take Vioxx once a day.
He dictated a letter to my rheumy and my gp as to how he wants my RA treated
and he would like me to come back every six mos. or so, which I will, if I
can afford him.
Don't ask me what exactly is causing the herx.....I started the Olive
Leaf a couple of weeks before going down there also. And by the way, he said
to stay on it for the candida problem. Even though this is the mother of all
herxes for me, I am not backing down on the meds right now. At least not for
a few more days if I can stand it. I could barely get to work the last
couple of days. Luckily I only work part time on a really flexible schedule
due to my RA. I'm very lucky there. I could not work full time. I wouldnt
hold up. Just 16 to 20 hrs per week is difficult.
I havent gotten the results from the mycoplasma tests he took yet. They
said that would take a couple of weeks. He tested for candida, clymidia
(sp), and the other I cant think of right now. You have to take in soooo
much information when you're there; its hard. I'll think of it though. It
will wander its way through the fog. :-/
Strep was negative, cbc was 10 something, so that's better than it was.
When I had my surgery at the end of april I was down to the low 9's. Dr.
Franco diagnosed my RA over all alittle before moderate. The scale being
low, moderate and extreme. He said if I had not been taking the minocin for
the last two years, I would be much worse than I am now. I told him I didnt
think I had responded to it at all, and thats when he told me how much worse
I would be without it.
At first he wanted to do the Clindy IV's. But I am so hard to find a
vein on that he said I could do the oral Zithromax instead. I was glad of
that. I may have to do the IV's someday though.
I think the other mycoplasma test was for the pnemonia bug...whats it
called? I really cant think right now, and I'm exhausted. Hopefully
getting to the yeast problem with the OL will help that as it seems worse
than the pain most times. (not right now, but most times! :)
Okay, thats all I can do right now. Gotta go lay down and herx, herx,
herx!!!! Maybe I should cut the Zithromax to 250 mg. per day on Tues and Sat
instead of the 500 mg. And maybe I should cut back on the OL alittle. I'm
attacking it aggressively with 2 pills 3 x per day. Thats what they
recommend when you are fighting something like candida. More on what I
learned about the OL later.
Missed you guys. Hope everyone is okay. I had to delete MANY messages,
darn it.
HUGS:)
Carol Scott**
RA 5 yrs, AP 2 yrs.
No. California

The Canadian Arthritis Society has improved its website. They now have a
link to the Cochrane Musculoskeletal Group which is described below. Their
Storefront gives you pictures and descriptions of a lot of different aids.
There is a lot more information on research, etc. The website is
www.arthritis.ca
Linda
"The Cochrane Musculoskeletal Review Group (CMSG) is a specialized group of
researchers and consumer representatives that belong to the Cochrane
Collaboration, an international organization that aims to help people
make-well informed decisions about health care by preparing, maintaining and
promoting reviews of the effects of health care treatments.
A collaborative review group, like CMSG, consists of people from around the
world who share an interest in developing and maintaining reviews, more
commonly referred to as systematic reviews, relevant to a particular health
area. In the case of CMSG, our interest is in all areas of musculoskeletal
disorders, including areas such as Osteoarthritis, Osteoporosis, Lupus,
Vasculitis, Systemic Sclerosis, Soft Tissue Disease, Gout, Rheumatoid
Arthritis and Paediatric Rheumatology.
Of the 40 registered or proposed review groups that make up the Cochrane
Collaboration, CMSG is the largest review group. We have an impressive
international collection of CSMG members that help to assemble and edit
completed reviews so that they may be added to The Cochrane Library. The
coordinating office for the CMSG is located in Ottawa, Canada and is under
the direction of the group's coordinating editor Dr. Peter Tugwell.
Like other Cochrane Review Groups that receive assistance from the Cochrane
Centre of the country hosting the group, the CMSG receives support from the
Canadian Cochrane Centre which assists CMSG members in their efforts, as
well as the many other Canadians working on different projects for the
Cochrane Collaboration."

Hi Group - I'm suppose to take Mino MWF and Zithromax TTh.
Well, I took Mino today (2 days in a row). Do you think
I'll get any kind of reaction or anything from messing up
like this? My better judgment says it shouldn't make much
difference. What about tomorrow (Friday), should I do Mino
or skip it?
In 8 months I've never missed! Quess it was bound to
happen. Thanks for any advise you send.
Lea

Does anyone have any info on alternative treatments for MS, one of my
sisters was just diagnosed with it (she also has bad emphysema) since
she isn't on the net I told her I'd research it.
Thanks, Julie

That's a reasonable theory Cooky. I am really wondering at this point if I
should switch back to Doxy from the Mino as I really
have not felt any improvement since I've been on the Mino. In many ways, I'm
inclined to say I'm worse. With the discussions about
K pneumoniae being a frequent cause of AS and that K pneumoniae is often
resistant to Mino, I'm really wondering what to do here.
Could the folks with AS please respond to this post so I can get an idea of what
the rest of you are taking for your antibiotic?
I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks - Jan K

I've been seeing alot of posts on Acidophilus lately and thought I'd
share my recent experience. I started taking acidophilus as soon as I
started the AP, initially getting some off the shelf at the drug store.
Shortly after, I heard I should be taking the refrigerated stuff from
the health food store and changed to that. I was religious about
avoiding sugar and drastically limited the amount of wheat and dairy
products I had. Still, within a couple of months, I started having
severe bouts of diarrhea, to the point where I was getting worried. At
the group's suggestion, I added olive leaf and slippery elm, which
helped but didn't eliminate the problem.
A friend of my mom's suggested I try a different probiotic that a local
chiropractor sells. At first, I was leery because it didn't need to be
refrigerated but I finally got desperate and gave it a try. To my
surprise, I haven't had a problem since I started using it. I even went
back to my refrigerated stuff for awhile to see what would happen, my
problems recurred, I went back to the new stuff, problems gone. The
label says the bacteria are "stabilized microencapsulated freeze dried
Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bulgaricus and Bifidus". It got me thinking
that I had no way of knowing whether the refrigerated stuff was kept
properly refrigerated throughout shipping and stocking, which may have
caused it to deteriorate.
Anyway, this stuff is called Lacto-Plus and it's made by a company
called Nutri-West, located in Douglas, Wyoming. I don't have any
contact numbers for them but I did search them out on the internet and
they have a web site. I don't know if they sell through the net or by
mail but I believe they market their products through chiropractors so
that might be one way of getting it if you can't get it from the
internet. All I can say is it works for me and it's convenient not
having to worry about refrigeration.
Paula

Well, Just a short note to tell you to never, never never go to see Maria
McDuff in Santa Barbara . I had an awful time there. She said she did not
want me as a patient because, she said, I knew more about my disease than she
did. My fasting blood sugar was 140 and she said that was normal.
I have never had such a bad experience in all my life. Said she would not
prescribe my pain meds, did not like it that I take xannax, and that I needed
to learn to live with the pain, and "Get over It" I sincerely hope at this
point in the day that she gets some disease where she has to "get over it"
well to upset to write more.
Kelly

Hi everyone:
Thanks for the responses to my question about weight loss and its' causes.
Geoff reminded me of avocados, a favorite of mine, but taken off the family
menu years ago because of the high caloric content. Right now with the
weight loss, it looks like an ideal dietary addition.
Thanks again,
Harry

Hi Gang! Me again...
Seems a lot of us have problems keeping our weight up (for a variety of
reasons) especially during a flare. Chronic disease takes extra
calories, thus you need to eat more than usual to stay normal. Pain
increases that calorie usage. Warmth increases it even more.
If you're flaring and need to stabilize, try adding in food that is
easily assimilated it not energy, along with extra protein. Avocados are
an excellent source of energy for flares, coupled with higher protein
intake from fish & chicken (no chemicals!). The avocados provide LOTS of
extra calories, they are assimilated quickly, and if you can use them -
can be combined with virtually any food, while the proteins break down
more slowly into the same sugars and are used as well.
Put yourself on a strict schedule and force yourself to eat so that you
keep your weight up. Regardless of how you think it looks ordering two
meals when you eat out, or how anything else looks for that matter, you
MUST keep weight on at a healthy level to keep strength up or you will
not be able to wage an effective fight.
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Hi Group!
Perhaps a silly question but I have a fairly vicious cold right now and
it made me realize that it is perhaps the first cold/flu that I have
had since my RA flared 2 1/2 years ago. Are we less likely to get colds
and flus because our immune systems are in overdrive??
I am looking at the bright side and convincing myself that maybe this
is a "good" cold because it means that my immune system is finally
getting back to normal. All my lab results are steadily getting back
to normal range so I'm just thinking.....
Despite my desperate desire to find something positive in this cold, I
can handle the truth, is there any merit in my above mentioned theory?
Additionally, I know we have had discussions about birth control and
its connections to RA and AP but unfortunately during those discussions
I didn't have much of an interest in the topic. I was wondering if
someone could give me the rundown on the use of POP (mini
pill--progesterone only) and its potential interactions with RA and AP.
Thanks a million! Regards, Amy

Hi Group:
I've noticed a couple of members of the group mentioned significant weight
loss. I went from 158 to 146 in about a month. I'm reasonably sure my
disorders are limited to RA. I'm on pred, 10mg/day, and Lederle's
minocycline two days a week, 200mg/day.
Would appreciate hearing from others, and what their Docs say is the cause,
i.e.,
the medication or the RA, or what.
Thanks,
Harry

Billie - I'm interested in your weight gain since taking the
acidophilus between meals. I've lost from 123# to 108#. I
take acidophilus before bed (doctor's recommendation). I'm
wondering if I should be taking it between meals instead, or
in addition to bedtime. Do you have any thoughts/experience
along these lines?
One of these days I'm going to try Olive Leaf and Slippery
elm but not I'm not ready yet.
Lea

Hi Gang! Geoff Crenshaw here.
We all know what a money pit these chronic ailments are; And how
expensive all the doctor visits, lab tests, Rx and OTC drugs and herbals
are; And how much it seems we flush day after day, year after year. But
for those of us in the USA who pay ANY income taxes (withholding,
estimated, etc.) it's good to remember that all med stuff (including
OTC's, herbals, that peroxide, etc.) adds up and can be deducted if it
breaches the percentage of income level AND you itemize.
If you can get your Doctor to write a prescription for those
supplements, they become deductible. Same with the peroxide baths. Ditto
the spa. And don't forget travel, lodging and food expenses to visit the
Doctor. (For many of us this is considerable as we have to travel great
distances, even cross-country, to see these people.) And yes, all those
labs too!
Before you jump on me, yes... I know there are people to whom this will
not apply as they have zero or too low an income to file.
But we are not all in that boat and for those of us still
(un?)fortunate enough to be paying taxes, this can make a big
difference. It does have restrictions and the amounts must pass a
percentage of income threshold before it works. Consult your tax advisor
for more info -- AND WRITE DOWN THOSE EXPENSES WHEN THEY HAPPEN, OR
BETTER, GET & KEEP THOSE RECEIPTS.
HTH :)
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Quick question folks;
How does a yeast overgrowth present on the tongue?
THEORY:
Systemic yeast in even the most minor
amounts will appear in the salivary
excretions and grow visible absent outside
artificial intevention
TEST:
No toothbrushing, rinses or gum for 48 hrs
Check tongue surface upon waking
Note color, general surface condition
RESULT:
Normal tongue appearance
CONCLUSION:
Systemic yeast "probably" absent
RESULT:
Overgrowth visible as yellow to green
slimey covering on tongue
CONCLUSION:
Systemic yeast present, perhaps in
minor amounts treatable w/o Rx meds
So... Does it present this way? If so this could be a WHOLE LOT cheaper
than having a bunch of expensive labs.
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Liz,
Will you please explain what you mean by a pred burst--how much, how
often etc.
Helen

Hello,
Since I've had more than one query on yeast on the skin, I am
posting to all.
Yeast grows in warm, dark, moist places, for example, thrush,
vaginitis, athelete's foot and places like the groin, underarms, and
under breasts. When you scratch there is a different sensation from say
swelling from a bug bite, or dry skin, or rash.
I have had monilia, many years ago, and I did have thrush after
starting pred.
` Anyone who has had vaginitis from monilia knows the difference from
the another type of vaginal infection.
I started this problem not long after beginning pred in 1989. I
began the AP from mid-Oct 1997 to mid-March 1998, then June 1998.
Definitely not a herx :-) In addition, it responds to miconazole.
After awhile it comes back.
It's a nursing diagnosis :-).
Denise
NC

Hi Group - Just thought I'd let you know my experience with
Super Blue Green. I have 3 cockatoos (parrots) Chenille,
Thumper, and Walter. I sprinkle this on their food. In the
bird world, this stuff helps feather condition and
coloration. It's added to baby bird formula too. It's rich
in anti-oxidants, amino acids, calcium, and B-12.
I've taken the Kalamath Lake version in capsule form prior
to RA. I didn't feel any different...no better/no worse, my
hair didn't get any blonder, and my feathers still look the
same!
Lea

Does garlic help as a preventative against yeast?
Linda

Hi Gang! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Just another quick comment on Glucosamine Sulfate. When I first took it
(brand: AMNI) it helped me. I used it for 30 days, then ran out. I got
more later but had problems (same brand) with extended use that are
related to the carrier. AMNI "is" hypoallergenic, but the carrier still
was a problem for me.
Points are:
1. It does help the cartilage;
2. You have to be careful even with hypoallergenic stuff;
3. It's really important to be tuned-in to what your body
does, and DOES NOT like;
4. If you have problems with one brand, try another; and
5. Try to start with wheat/corn/soy/dairy free type.
HTH
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Happy Canada Day to all the Canadians out there!
Linda

Well, I finally had my last day at work for at least the next 10 weeks,
which was hard but I'm glad it's over. I think I'm all out of tears
from trying (very badly) to say good-bye. Here's hoping some rest and
mild exercise will help me to improve. I found out yesterday that now
I'm going to have to battle the insurance company for my disability
coverage but I'm so fed up about being jerked around that if they want a
fight, they've picked the right person. I already have the name of a
good disability lawyer and I've heard he's doing a radio show on
Saturday so I just might call for a little free advice. At least I have
the support of everyone in my office so I don't have a problem there.
And I want to thank all of you for your kind and supportive e-mails.
You helped more than you know. At least now I'll have more time and
energy to correspond with you.
Paula

Dear Al,
Thanks for your response and all the info.
I have the names of two organizations which may be helpful in your search for
a "cooperative doctor."
You can try contacting
1) American Academy of Naturopathic Physicians
601 Valley St. Ste. 105
Seattle, WA 98109
Send above $5.00 for a list of docs
or
2)American Holistic Medical Association
6728 Old Mclean Village Dr.
McLean VA 22101
They charge $10 for a directory of holistic physicians
I don't know if you can get lists free on the Web.
Hope this helps.
Susan

Well Group I need a kick straight in the a--. I went to a foot surgeon
today with hopes of an MRI for my left metatarsal area to see if it
could be repaired. I happened to mention that the right ankle was
bending in more (I have flat feet) and what could I do. ....Now notice I
did not mention any pain. He said my foot wasn't bad enough to worry
about. Then said my ankle was hot. Asked if I had pain. NO. Then he said
I would loose my tendon if I didn't get it injected!! WOW..I freaked. I
said but all the other places that were injected in the past, now I felt
like I had bone on bone or other problems and the only joint not
injected is back to normal. He repeated, and injected the ankle. Now I
sit here physically crying and crying. I did just what I had told other
people not to do..I am ashamed and scared. So...I called Ethel. The only
hope I have at this point is that it will take the swelling down to let
the Minocin work better. I forgot to say this ankle had been swollen and
painful for 1 1/2 years...just the last 2 months it was not and I felt
the AP was doing its job...Oh how I wish I remembered that.
So Thanks for letting me vent..I just hope it will be OK.
cooky

Saw an herbalist today and she recommended among other things that I start
colloidal minerals. Anyone here tried them? I found it interesting that in doing
a web search on Dr. Wallach, that he believes in the mycoplasma theory of RA,
and suggests antibiotic treatment along with the minerals and certain herbs.
here is the page I am referring to, if anyone is interested:
www.doctor-wallach.com/faq3.htm
I am pretty sceptical of colloidal minerals having heard of people who tried
them with no results, but may give them a go.
I also saw my doctor today and we are trying another pred burst, this time with
a 5mg maintenance dose to follow, as the swelling is back as bad as a year ago,
although I am still free of the awful fatigue and poor sleep. I am hoping that
the pred will help the tetracycline get where it needs to go to do it's work.
I have also come by about 20 capsules of clindamycin, (not through my doc)
and am wondering if I should add them to my regime, or if it may do more harm
than good if I am not in ongoing treatment with them.
Thanks for the info on Nolamine, Ethel. I will bring this up with my doc
after I see how the pred treatment goes. Am I right in thinking that this is
just to relieve pain and swelling, and won't change the destructive process? The
reason I am asking is that in spite of pretty bad swelling in some joints and
around some tendons, I have little pain, unless I overdo it in the walking
department. Thanks in advance, Liz G

I'm happy to see that I stimulated some good discussion with "Are we
wandering"? I think (I hope) that's good for the group. Actually in
retrospect (and I don't mean this as a cop-out) I think it was more of a
hypothetical actually than a firmly held conviction on my part, as I
continue to take supplements, both of a vitamin nature as well as herbal.
Heck, if someone told me there was a cure tomorrow for RA and it wasn't
minocycline, I wouldn't look back for 2 seconds. But in the meantime, I
still see it as the best theory going and I grant that these other items we
are taking may help to boost our systems and allow the minocin to work.
But it does get more complex as we experiment - when we do start to feel
good for a week or so, then we begin to ponder - geez, is it the olive leaf?
Maybe the bromelain is finally kicking in? Maybe it's the weather? Maybe
it's just the RA up and down wave? Now I don't really care what it is as my
goal is to feel better, but it will get complicated and time consuming as I
try to eliminate items slowly in an effort to determine what is really
making me better. I do have some doubts that this onslaught of pills
landing in my gut at each meal is all so wonderful - I wonder how they're
getting along down there in the ol' tummy, if you know what I mean . So I
see some risks with all the experimenting - I think we should caution
ourselves against the thought that herbals are a free ride - I think there
can be a joker in the bunch for any one of us, whether by itself or combined
with another treatment we are swallowing. I guess the best we can do to
avoid that joker is to try and read as much as possible and try to find some
good herbalists who know whether this stuff can have some adverse effects if
taken together.
I do appreciate the concern of those who can not afford all this
supplementation - it is downright expensive and under slightly different
circumstances, I wouldn't have the luxury of affording any of this
experimentation either. I can only hope that somehow this medical system in
our fair country goes through some revisions that will make it possible for
those not so fortunate to share in some of the benefits. I understand that
it costs a lot of money to develop new drugs and I understand that without
some thought of recouping, no one would bother, yet on the other hand, I
feel the people who run these companies have lost their "humanity". How
would they feel if a family member couldn't afford to try Enbrel and it was
the only hope? Sure would put the shoe on a different foot, wouldn't it?
As a side note, I staved off the root canal - there remains some doubt as to
whether this is needed. I did discuss Meinig's book with the endodontist -
he was cool with that (he had an autographed copy of the book himself). He
did state that there was plenty of documentation on the other side of that
coin and that thousands ,even millions of people have had root canals with
no problems (as he saw it of course - later when they become sick, he'll
blame it on something else <G
and he wouldn't discount the possibility perhaps that someone could have
arthritis type symptoms. Yet you could still see he was itchin' to get into
my mouth. LOL. I appreciate all of you who replied to me - it helped me
stick to my guns today and as you know, that's no fun game.
Thanks for letting me blabber on - guess I needed someone to talk to - and
you guys are the best!
Mark

I have been receiving e-mails for some time watching for anyone from
Vancouver, Canada. I am having no success finding an AP co-operative
rheumy. Has anyone heard of one out this way?
Gary

Hi,
Have any of you tried vitamins and supplements that you spray in
your mouth?
I started on spray mutivitamins 12 days ago. I don't know if it
works but this is my 14th email today! I don't think I usually write
that many in a month.
Denise
NC

Hi,
The leaflet with the info about Arthro-7 that I asked you folks
about lists osteo, RA, spondylitis, bursitis, fibromyalgia,
inflammation. They list some studies. The only ones listed for RA are
about collagen type II.
I will report the results of my three month supply. If that doesn't
work, I guess I can get the collagen at WM :-)
BTW, our Great Dane did very well on the Sundown G/C. I tried
another brand and that did nothing for her OA.
Denise
NC

Sarah,
How about thinking where you might be if you had not taken care of
yourself :-)
Denise
NC

Group:
My name is Bill and I am new to this group/list. I was diagnosed with AS May
1999. I have done a lot of research since then, including reading Gary
Kinghorn's success story. I discovered in my research that the bacteria
"Klebsiella" (and a few other bacteria) may be the triggering factor in AS.
The best study I read on this subject (and the cause of RA as well) can be
found at http://www.healthy.net/library/articles/galland/dybiosis1.htm.
Gary mentioned "Cipro" as the antibiotic he had success with fighting his
AS/ReA. I have researched Cipro and found that it is indicated for
Klebsiella and the other "enterobacteria"
thought to cause AS (but not RA).
My question to the group is: Has anybody else besides Gary taken Cipro for
their AS? If so, what were the results?
Thanks so much for your help.
Bill E.

Hi all:
This has been quite a very good discussion. I recently went to Dr.
Mercola re osteo and he recommended glucosamine 500 three times a day.
Well I found it in l000 for l2.95 and have tried since Monday. I sure
it works. I will keep watching these posts to see what anyone else has
to report on just plain glucosamine and not G plus C.
This is just the best group of individuals with the same fight going on.
LOL Janet-Montana RAl3 yrs AP l4 mths.

Hello Gwen, Mark, Jan, Harry and Group,
It is interesting that some of you have noticed increased pain and swelling
after starting a Glucosamine/Chondroitin supplement. I didn't have a
baseline for comparison because I started the stuff prior to diagnosis and
Minocin. (That was back when the only docs who listened to my complaints
were horse vets who told me to try G/C!) Anyhow, I've quit the G/C and I
will go back to keeping my pain chart so I'll have a more objective view of
how I'm feeling at the end of the month. (The fact that I haven't been
keeping my pain chart is a good indication of just how far I've come since
starting Minocin last December -- the pain isn't gone, but it's more of a
nuisance now than a hindrance!)
I have been using the Sundown brand, too. My mother tried it for OA and
didn't feel it did anything for her. I'm not certain she gave it a long
enough trial, however. Like Harry, I wonder what the recommendation would
be for people who suffer from both RA and OA.
Good health to all,
Kari

Hey Gang,
Well our local Bi-Election is over, and our specific candidate came in
'FIRST' !! We now have a new MLA!
I can't believe that I put in 10 hour days/ 7 days a week/ for the last 2
months! I am very much enjoying the LULL that follows! I only had to take
ONE day off and use my cane, for that day at home!
Man to think I was struggling with a wheelchair just one year ago!! My
'Bad Days' are sooo much more tolerable than my 'Good Days' once were!
Thanks to all the angels who helped in my 'ROAD BACK' ! I am being pushed
to write a book on my struggle, and have e-mailed back and forth with
'Henry Scammell' who said he would help me in any way he can.
I have also attained another author to help me out. I hope to have my first
draft ready by July 31rst!!
"I REALLY HAVE MY LIFE BACK" and it is soooo much better than I ever
expected!!
Some of you may remember a goal that I once had....dancing the mother & son
dance at my first-born's graduation!! Well I have achieved that GOAL!! It
was absolutley "AWESOME"!!
I still have crippled hands and feet, but NO PAIN!! Just TO think, that
with all our testimonies, there is NO reason for anyone to be crippled by
this disease EVER again!!
I love you all!
Janine osberg RA since 1983 (almost 16 years now) AP since Feb'97 Just over
2 years!(just oral minocin)

Hello All,
I've greatly enjoyed the discussion prompted by Mark's "Are We Wandering?"
post. There have been so many important, thoughtful points made, and I
think that is very helpful and healthy as we all continue in our quest for
health.
Joyce raises an interesting question when she asks, "How do we know that the
mixture of herbs, supplements, etc. doesn't cancel one or all out or make
the Minocin null and void? Are there any studies that anyone knows of
concerning mixing "natural" products with chemicals?"
Yesterday I saw my new local rheumatologist, and he suggested that I might
want to quit taking Chondroiton/Glucosamine for a month and see how I feel.
He is a strong believer in C/G for OA, but he said that, "in theory", it may
actually exacerbate RA. He continued to emphasize that this is only "in
theory", but he thinks it is worth a try before switching NSAIDs, etc. Has
anyone heard of this theory?
This doc feels that I am doing very well on Minocin and should continue on
with it. It is good to find somebody locally who is encouraging and
supportive of this treatment -- it is interesting to note that I felt even
better after leaving his office than I did before I arrived, and I felt
pretty good going in. There is definitely something to be said for the
effects of a doctors "bed side manner."
Bye,
Kari

Thanks for posting the testimony of the Columbine father. I think every
American should have the opportunity to read this, but am not about to rely on
the mainstream media to fulfill this worthy task. So, have e-mailed it to
everyone in my address book including congressmen with a note asking them to
pass it on.
Have a great day everyone and God bless America!
Sheila, Oregon, RA 2 years, AP 2 months (Minocin 200mg MWF)

Do any of you have any info on root canals or personal experiences that you
would like to share with me. I'm going in this afternoon to see an
endodontist to have him evaluate a tooth for a root canal. I've read Dr.
Meinig's interview with Dr. Mercola and his views that it is best to have
the tooth removed. I've also gone and read the official American
Association of Endodontists viewpoint on this which I quote:
"More recent attempts to copy the research of Dr. Price (and to check its
accuracy) have been unsuccessful. Researchers now believe that the earlier
findings may have been caused by poor sanitation and imprecise research
techniques that were common in the early 1900s."
This tooth is a back molar so it can not have a bridge put in if it is
removed - I will just have a hole there which can of course lead to the
possibility of my lower teeth drifting upwards, an undesirable event.
I know the endodontist will tell me that Dr. Price's research is all bunk
because that is what he has been taught. I'm looking for viewpoints on both
sides of the issue that would be unbiased - I'm trying to find them on the
web - if any of you know of any sites I might look at, I would appreciate
it.
I am fortunate in that my wife was a dental hygienist for 20 years, so she
understands this much better than I do. She has read Dr. Meinig's interview
w/ Dr. Mercola and it sounds plausible to her, but I am also aware that you
can't just believe everything you read.
I had a root canal done in the Spring of '96 - makes me wonder to this day
if that was the cause of my arthritis 2 years later - a lot of stuff
happened to weaken my immune system from '95 on - backpacking almost the
entire length of the Appalachian Trail definitely weakened my system, then
breaking my ankle near the end of the hike and going through 2 operations
didn't help, then 4 months later having the root canal done, and 2 months
after that having my gall bladder go out on me and another operation. Makes
one wonder.
So I am in a quandry - and any thoughts you have will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day; Lodine 400mg 3x/day;olive
leaf;Zone Diet
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

Here you go rocio, all translaed for you. Hopefully I did a good job. :-)
RE: FW: alarm aspartame (fwd) Eduardín:I remember something which you
commented ,something of the Aspartame, arrived this message to me, something
long, but that extends this subject indeed.
Greetings, Raul
By: Nancy Markle
I have passed several days in the Environmental World-wide Conference on
the ASPARTAME, commercialized like " NutraSweet ", " Equal " and Spoonful ".
In the preannouncements of the EPA, they informed that telling of an epidemic
into sclerosis , multiple and of systematic lupus and they do not believe
that toxin was doing that this was released the brakes in the United States.
Explaining that he was there exactly to speak to them of that subject.
When the temperature of the Aspartame exceeds 86 degrees F., the alcohol
of to burn in the Aspartame becomes formaldehyde and soon acid. formico,
that as well cause metabolica acidosis. (the formico acido one is the found
one in the sting of the red ants). This way, to people , it diagnosed by
multiple error sclerosis. The multiple sclerosis is not a disease that takes
to the death quickly, whereas the toxicity of methanol if. In the case of
sistematico lupus, we have verified that has extended as much as the
multiple sclerosis, specially in Diet Coca-cola drinkers & Diet Pepsi. Also
with toxicity of metanol, people whom, if they drink generally of 3 to 4 cans
of 12 ounces of these per day, some even but. In the case of sistematico
lupus, that is caused by Aspartame, the victim does not know generally that
the Aspartame is the culprit. The Victim's continuous use of it, aggravats
lupus to such an extent, that some times it risks their life.
When we asked that people stop using the Aspartame, those with lupus
generally stop getting worse but unforutnatly, we cannot reverse this
disease.
By the other side, in the case of those diagnosed with multiple sclerosis
(when in fact the disease is poisoning with metanol), many symptoms
disappear. We have seen cases where there are recovered vision and even the
oido one. This is also applicable to cases of nistagmos.
During a conference I said: If You this taking Aspartame Nutrasweet, Equal,
Spoonful, etc.) and it undergoes symptoms like: sharp spasams, pains, in
the legs, cramps, vertigo, , pains head, nistagmos, pains in the joints,
depression, attacks of anxiety, difficulty in blurred or lost the speech,
vision of memory, probably it has the disease of the ASPARTAME! People
jumped up during the conference, saying: " I have that".Is it reversible? It
was wild. Until some of my distant friends said they were undergoing those
symptoms. When he had the floor, the assistant to the Ambassador of Uganda,
said to us that its industry of food production was adding aspartame! He was
saying that a son of one of their leaders of the sugar industry was already
not able to walk due partly to use of that product! We have a very serious
problem. During a break, He approached the Dr.Espisto (one of the speakers)
and me, saying:
becauseof this how many people are suffering from this who havethis
suffering of Multiple Sclerosis?
During a visit to a hospital, a nurse said that 6 of his friends
were greatly addicted to diet Coke, then they were diagnosed with Multiple
Sclerosis This is a strange coincidence. I am hearing the problem.
There were Congresional Hearings that mentioned they include the
Aspartame in 100 different. products. From this initial hearing, there have
been two additional hearings but,
but without conclusive results. Nothing has been done. The lobbiests of drugs
and this product have very deep pockets. Now there is but of 5,000 products
containing this poison and the PATENT HAS EXPIRED!!!!!!!!!!
At the time of that first hearing, people had become blind Metanol in
aspartame becomes formaldehyde in the retina of eye. The formaldehyde is
grouped in the same class of toxins that is in cyanide and in arsenic.
MORTAL POISONS unfortunatly, it has had time to kill but this killing people
and causing all kind of neurologicoproblems.
The Aspartame changes the cerebral chemical balance. It is the reason of
serious attacks. This drug changes the level of the dopamine in the brain.
Imagine what caused this drug to patients who suffer the disease of
Parkinsons
This drug also cause birth defects. There is no a reason to use this
product. IT IS NOT A DIET PRODUCT ! The registry of Congress decided: It
makes fake carbohydrates you and it makes you GET FAT! The Dr.Roberts said
that when the effects that patients of Aspartame quit using it, they lost
weight. Most averaged 19 pounds by person. The formaldehyde is stored in fat
cellulite, particularly in the hips and thighs.
The Aspartame is specially fatal for the diabetics. All Doctors know that
alcohol his bad for a diabetic. We found that the Doctors think that they
have patients with retinopatias, when in reality, is caused by the
Aspartame. The Aspartame maintains the level of insulin in the blood out of
control, causing those many patients enter into a comma.
Unfortunatly, many have passed away. In the Congress of the American School
of Doctors, people spoke of relatives who went off saccharin to a product
with Aspartame and like that relative then entered a comma. Their doctors did
not manage to have under control the insulin in the blood. Therefore, the
patients suffered serious lost of memory and possibly comma and death. The
lost of memory must attest to the fact that aspartic acid and the results
are neurotoxics without all the amino acids; that are in the proteins.
This way it passes the barrier of blood; of the brain and it deteriorates
the neurons of the brain.
Neurosurgeon Dr.Russel Blaylock, said: The ingredients over stimulate
neurons to the death, causing cerebral damage of varied levels.
Dr Blaylock has written a titled book " Excitotoxins: The taste that it
kills ". (Journalism of Health 1-800-643-2665).
Also written a book; Dr H. J. Roberts, a specialist in diabetes and
world-wide expert in problems with Aspartame, titled " Defense against the
Alzheimer's disease ". (1-800-814-9800).
Dr Roberts informs like products with Aspartame is triggering the disease
of Alzheimer's As the nurse of the hospital said to me, they have admitted
women of only 30 years of age with the Alzheimers. The Drs. Blaylock and
Roberts were starting to write articulate case historys and they published
it in Internet. According to the conference of the American Medical
Educational Studies, we are speaking of a plague of neurologicas diseases
caused by this fatal poison.
Dr Roberts realized what he saw was happening when first theyfirst
commercializes the Aspartame. He said: " My diabetics patients
presented/displayed lost of memory, confusion and
In the American Medical Educational Conference, the doctors admitted that
they do not understand it. They spoke and said because the attacks were
severe(the formula in aspartame breaks and the threshold of the attack and
dissipates the serotonin, that causes mania/ depression, attacks of panic,
rage and violence).
Just before the Conference, I recived a fax from Norway, requesting a
possible antidote for this poison, because they are having so many problems
in his country with these products. This " poison " is now available one in
90 products in world. Luckyly, testomonial speakers and ambassadors in the
Conference of different nations said that it jeopardizes its help. We
requested that You or they help also.
Warn all the people who You know. Take any thing that contains Aspartame of
return to the store. request the presence of " nonAspartame " products and
let them know its history in patient's cases. I assure that to them, MONSANTO
the creator of Aspartame, knows the poison that it is. They give bottom line
examples to the American Association of Diabetes, to the American Dietary
Association, the Congress and Conference of the American School of Medicine.
The New York Times published my article on the 15 of November of 1996 about
the American Dietary Association giving money to him to the Industry of the
Food to endorse his products Therefore, they cannot criticize this additive
or speak to them of its connection with Monsanto. How bad is this? We said
to a mother who took her son with NutraSweetoff that product. The boy was
undergoing great attacks every day. The mother called his Doctor and said,
that he would call as well to ADA. They told the Dr who did not let the
boyuse NutraSweet. Currently we are trying to convince the mother that
Aspartame is causing the attacks. Whenever we learned that somebody stops
the Aspartame, they stop the offensives. If it drinks were stopped they
already know of who is the fault and that is what we are in against. There
are 92; cases documented of the Aspartame, from the coma to the death.
mostly it is neurologicol, because Aspertame destroys the nervous system.
The disease of the Aspartame is partially the cause which this
detracts something of the mystery of the problems of health of Desert Storm
personel . The jumbled language and other problems discussed in 60 cases can
be directly related to consumption of a product with Aspartame. Several
thousand of dispatched; cases of diet drinks to the troops of Desert Storm.
(one remembers that the heat can release metanol of the Aspartame at 86
degrees F. The dieteticas drinks were under the sun from Arabia to 120
degrees F during weeks on pallets.
The women and the men in service drank diet soda day in and out.
All his symptoms are related to contamination of Aspartame. Dr..Roberts
says " consuming Aspartame at the time of conception can cause congenital
malformations ". The poison is concentrated in the placenta, causing mental
retardation, according to the testimony of the Dr.Louis Elsas, Professor of
Childrens pediactrics, at the University of Emory, before Congress. In the
original tests of Laboratory, the animals developed to cerebral tumors (the
posion becomes DXP, agent of cerebral tumor). When the Dr Espisto was
speaking about Aspartame, a Doctor, a neurosurgeon who was in the room and
said: when they remove cerebral tumors, they have found high levels of
Aspartame
..Stevia, a sweet food, noncAdditive, that helps in the metabolism of
insulin, is ideal for the diabetic, and has been now approved as a dietary
supplement by the F.D.A. For Years, the F.D.A. said no too this sweet food by
its loyalty to MONSANTO. If it says " WITHOUT Sugar "on labels????It has
Aspartamne Senator Howard Hetzenbaum wrote a project that had
warned all the children, are embarrassed and you drink on the dangers of
the Aspartame. The project had also instituted independent studies on the
problems; existing in the population (attacks, changes in cerebral fluid,
changes
It was deeded by powerful drug and the marketing lobbies, to loosen to the
bloodhounds of the disease and death oof the public trust. From the American
conference of Doctors school, we are trusting to count on the aid of some
you lead world-wide. I REPEAT. Please join us also. There are many people
who are outside the informational loop and they must be warned. Please speak
to help them know this information.
Hector Fabio RESTREPO G. 1015 Lausanne, Switzerland
Logic Systems Laboratory restrepo@...
Computer Science Department Tel: +41 21 693 67 14
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Fax: +41 21 693 37 05

Hi Group,
I've been reading Mark's post and the replies and I want to express
something that I've been thinking for a while.
How do we know that the mixture of herbs, supplements, etc. doesn't cancel
one or all out or makethe Minocin null and void? Are there any studies
that anyone knows of concerning mixing "natural" products with chemicals?
Another observation of mine is that some people with these diseases get
along better before they make a trip to the doctor and get loaded down with
pills. One example is a friend of mine who had RA for 20 yrs, took only
Relafen during that time and did great. It was virtually impossible to
look at her and know that she had RA. Well, she changed jobs and along
with that job came insurance (HMO) that required her to change doctors.
The new doctor immediately started her on Gold (pill form) and a different
NSAID. Within the three years that she changed doctors, she has been on
Gold, Methotrexate, Prednisone, and other powerful drugs. Also during that
time, she has developed ulner deviation and other outward signs of the
disease. There are days that she can't get out of bed. Her doctor has
agreed to let her try Minocin but will not allow her to stop Methotrexate,
Prednisone or NSAIDS.
I wonder if the powerful drugs brought on her health failure or if it was a
natural occurrence.
Sometimes I think diet and exercise are the most important things to do for
these diseases.
Any comments?
Joyce
RA 10 yrs.
AP from Nov.97- march 99 (developed hypersensitivity to Minocin)

Yoly,
You said those of us with AS are put into a "very aggressive early
osteoporosis". I've been trying to figure out for some time exactly what is
going on with the calcium issue in our bodies. From what you've said, I
should definitely be on major calcium supplements. I've been questioning
this in my own mind because my understanding is that my tendons and
ligaments are calcifying, so do I really want to add more calcium to the mix
and add to it? Now with you saying I'm having major bone loss at the same
time, then it seems I should definitely be on the high dosage calcium. So
how does this affect the calcification of areas of my body that are supposed
to be smooth and supple?
Very confused on the calcium issue,
Jan K

I have a question. I just got my blood test results. My SED rate has more
than doubled in the last 6 weeks from 24 to 52; it hasn't been that high in
over a year. Normally when my SED rate is that high, I definitely feel it.
This time, I thought it was going to be even lower than 24 because I have a
lot less pain. Also, when my SED rate goes up, my hemoglobin falls; this
time it went up 3 points. Can anyone explain this?
Linda
(RA 21 yr, AP 19 months)

What a great discussion! Thanks, Mark, for starting it.
I'm sure all of us at one time or other must look at all our vitamins and
potions and powders and think "What am I doing'." I think that feeling is
attributable to being "sick and tired" of being sick and tired and not
necessarity because one does not believe the "stuff" is helping.
I think if we limit ourselves to AP we are back to the western medical model
v.s. an integrative model: one illness, one pill fits all and no systems are
related.
We are trying to build health not just get rid of illness. I really think
most people should take supplements and eat a diet like ours. I am a
religious reader of health and nutrition magazines etc. and no-one should
really eat sugar, red meat, dairy, greasy, fatty foods etc.
We all may have rheumatic disease, but what led us to succomb to it, whatever
the cause can be different and we all have to address our health as
individuals as well.
I wish I could just take my minocin and be well. I wish medicine really was
an exact science and not an art and then I could be cured and save money from
meds and not spend a lot of time thinking about what could help me. But I
know that's not they way it is. There may be a road back, but there's
nothing wrong with some sight-seeing along the way to make the trip more
comfortable and perhaps shorter.
Good luck to us and thank everyone for their thoughts and research.
Susan

In a message dated 6/29/99 10:32:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bsgttx@... writes:
<< my integrative physician just suggested
What is an integrative physician?
Anita

Dear Everyone,
I just came back from my regular visit with rheumatologist and had the
highest SED rate I've ever had. It was 76. Prior it was normal, even when
had postive rheumatoid factor, but since last six months which was when I
first became symptomatic it went up to 42 and has stayed there. My
Rheumatoid factor has stayed at about 275. But the sed almost doubled in the
last 7 weeks since I started the antibiotic therapy(current is 76; six weeks
ago was 42).
Dr. thought it meant the minocin wasn't agreeing with me; then I told him
about herx (I'm his first minocin person tho he's an RA expert!) and he said
that he would defer to me on that and I would stay on minocin. But he did
C-reactive protein and when that comes back he said we'd have more info. He
also said, which I find quite interesting, that I do not have the symptoms to
go with the sed rate--that I should be a lot worse than I am! I will also
get Rhematoid factor results in a few days too to see where that's at.
I feel okay, except for wrists which are worse than ever, and a few fingers.
Ankles and knees are better and fatigue is not too bad.
Is this a herx? I never heard of a doubled sed rate after starting Ap
meaning they were'n't agreeing with you.
Could you please let me know what you think? I am now on 100 mgs minocin M.
150 Wed, and 100 thursday. I do probiotics and tons of supplements.
Thank you in advance for any help or ideas.re: meaning on new doubled Sed
rate.
Susan

http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af.woa?ap=1&id=64013
Hi Group:
The above site points out the results of recent research in Europe which
shows St. Johns Wort has strong antibiotic effects on bacterial strains
resistant to penicillin and methicillin.
St. Johns Wort has been the drug of choice in Germany for some time for the
treatment of depression. Some studies show it to be a least as effective as
Prozac.
What puzzles me is if the product is indeed so potent why is it sold over the
counter, and at such a modest price?
Harry

Thanks Mark!!!! Once again you have given us something to really consider.
Let's see now. When I first started AP I hadn't found this group.
I had read the Arthritis Breakthrough and that's all. I got my
prescription from my family doctor who had never heard of using antibiotics
for scleroderma. So I was taking just the doxycycline, prilosec for
gastric reflux, Naproxen and my blood pressure med. No one had told me to
change my diet nor to take any supplements. I had the added benefit of
having never taken any DMARDS (disease modifying anti-rheumatic
drugs--usually immunospressents - like mtx, D pen, etc.) Nor had I ever
been given any steroids (pred). I began taking 50 doxy MWF, building up
to 100 mg....then with one month was taking 100 mg daily for about 3 months
as I was using if for malaria protection while traveling. Then I went to
100 mg. twice a day pulse fashion on MWF. I used doxy alone (no
supplements) for 1 and 1/2 years during which time I had marked improvement
in ALL symptoms and complete resolution of some symptoms (except
telangectasia). Then I began oral clindamycin 1200 mg. once a week.
Symptoms still were improving. I added some supplements and felt like I
was doing some good and helping myself along the way - but I think I
honestly would have to say that it definitely was the doxy that has caused
me to improve. Just my two cents work. I have tried various supplements
and probably will be trying olive leaf extract and some others the group
has mentioned in an effort to try to do everything I can to fight the
battle. Judy (deejay)

Hi Gang! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Anybody have any experience with this supplement? (SAM-e)
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Grp:
I have taken my second day of Clind by IV and am starting stomach cramps and
bloating. I had to take 7 days of an antibiotic up until last Sat for a UTI.
BTW- I have a great nurse- (knock on wood!) - she gets me with the first
stick!
Has anyone else experienced stomach cramps from Clindy?
Thanks,
Carol*

I should add that I take 3-4 times the recommended doseage of
acid/bif.
Denise

This post is in response to Mark's post on whether mino by =
itself should be enough or whether we need all the supplements
and herbal treatments, etc. along with it.
I tend to try to look at things logically.
I can state for a fact that the minocycline has put my
RA in remission, without any other supplementation.
But it's also true that my RA was not in the very active
stage after having it for 15+ years, and was never as severe
as some other people have gotten it.
So, for some, supplementation is not necessary while taking
the mino. Whether the RA will come back again after
discontinuing the mino is another story. Perhaps then my
immune system's strength will come into play.
Now, aside from logic, my gut belief is that if you
introduced the same strain of mycoplasma into two people,
one with a strong immune system and the other with a weak
immune system, both would suffer pretty much the same
symptoms, because the immune system can't fight the infection
anyway; they're stealth pathogens, remember.
Vern

Hello,
I have yeast on my skin from taking pred. It wouldn't surprise me,
therefore, that it is systemic, also. I am looking for supplements to
get rid of the yeast and to boost my immune system. In addition, I
would prefer to get off of pred and NSAIDS altogether by using herbs
and/or supplements to reduce inflammation. In 16 years I have never had
the pleasure of experiencing a remission or placebo effect. We know
that these drugs destroy cartilage.
My husband is the "cook" which means I have limited control over
what I eat.
Due to transportation and finances, my choice of physician is very
limited. The physician I see does not believe in the AP even though he
is willing to write scripts for antibiotics. He refuses to give me one
for clindamycin in any form. So, I need all the help I can get.
I want to get better and have some kind of a life instead of
spending the time left to me confined to a hospital bed 24/7. I could
not take mino although it worked miraculously for me given the shape I
am in. Ery tabs did not seem to do anything in 7 months. I am now
trying doxy, very slowly, so I can't tell at this time. I had asked the
physician for azithromycin but he said ery was better:-(
I have been able to reduce pred and aspirin using ra spes. No doubt
if I could take 3-4 per day I could get off completely. Then get rid of
the yeast and regrow some cartilage. Go into remission and get those
injections in my knees so I could stand and walk again. YES!!
Anyway, those are my goals based on my situation.
Denise

You know I'm beginning to wonder just a tad what happened to good ol'
minocyline? I know I've been guilty of wondering off down the path of
chasing every latest fad (most to no avail), but as we continue to explore
all these alternatives, it makes me think that minocycline isn't very
effective or why would we be trying everything else under the sun? I know,
we're just trying all this other stuff so that it will give the minocycline
a better chance to work and be effective. Still, I don't really recall Dr.
Brown indicating that we had to do all this. Seems like he had success
without it. Seems like if we go tell our docs that we are on minocycline,
but are also taking Ra-Spes, olive leaf, a thousand different herbs, MSM,
CMO, DMSO, Upper Klamath Lake Blue Green Algae, etc, etc., that it might be
logical for the physician to ask why we are taking all this other stuff if
we think minocycline is the greatest thing to come down the road?
Just a thought - wondering if we are all straying a bit far afield and in
the process wasting a lot of money and confusing ourselves to no end. How
are we ever going to determine what is effective? I wonder if our group
should rename itself "The Latest Fad Group" (perhaps I could share
leadership duties with someone? :)))
I am open to correction on this - perhaps a survey - listing other things we
take and who takes them - would give us a grasp on our membership and what
everyone is doing? Chris, Ethel - are we straying too far afield here?
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day; Lodine 400mg 3x/day;olive
leaf;Zone Diet;bromalain, maybe MSM today?
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

Dr. Chiu, there has been a lot of discussion recently about the need to
supplement with olive leaf extract because we probably all have yeast
infections due to our diseases, compromised immune systems and use of
antibiotics, steroids, NSAID's etc. I have also been reading information
like the quotation below from Dr. Weil which states that the theory of
systemic yeast is exaggerated. Frankly, I'm confused, especially since I
have been improving on the AP and not experiencing systems of yeast that I'm
aware of. What is your opinion about our need to treat for yeast
infections?
Linda
Quotation from website of Dr. Weil:
Candida albicans is a kind of yeast that normally lives in the
gastrointestinal tract and vagina without causing any problems. Under
certain circumstances it can reproduce wildly, causing symptomatic
infections of the mouth (thrush) and vagina as well as intestinal upsets. A
common cause of yeast overgrowth is antibiotic therapy, which can kill off
the "friendly" bacteria that compete with candida for food and keep it in
check. If you have to take broad-spectrum antibiotics, it is a good idea to
take supplemental acidophilus; to reduce the possibility of yeast
infections. Candidiasis also tends to occur in people with suppressed
immunity, such as patients with cancer and AIDS and those on long-term
treatment with steroids and other immunosuppressive drugs.
In recent years Candida albicans has received much notoriety in certain
circles as a major cause of illness. Some holistic practitioners diagnose
everyone coming through the door as having systemic yeast infections, and
health-food stores make a great deal of money on supplements that claim to
fight yeast. I have read books and pamphlets that give the impression that
everyone who has ever taken an antibiotic or steroid now is infected with
candida, and that undiagnosed yeast infections are responsible for fatigue,
depression, anxiety, mood swings, behavioral problems in children, allergic
reactivity, skin eruptions, and most chronic digestive problems. I have had
patients who believed yeast was growing in their blood, lungs, and other
vital organs and begged me to prescribe strong drugs to kill it. They
shunned beer, wine, bread, vinegar, and even mushrooms in the belief that
any food associated with yeast or fungus would contribute to their disease.
Most of these ideas are unsound. Diagnoses of systemic candidiasis usually
have no scientific basis, and most treatments people take for it are a waste
of time and money. If you had yeast growing in your blood or vital organs,
you would be in an intensive care unit, critically ill. Since candida is a
normal inhabitant of the human body, no objective test can prove it to be
the cause of general symptoms. Culturing it from the throat of a depressed
patient does not mean that yeast infection is the cause of the depression.

I worked for a "mainstream" physician for over 15 years and never did I see
a diagnosis of candidiasis or any systemic yeast infection. I posted the
charges and also did billing so I read chart notes for every patient during
those 15 years. We did treat patients for yeast infections in the throat
(thrush) and vaginitis. I had come to the same conclusion as Dr. Weil
that alternative practitioners diagnosed Candida on every patient that came
through the door and I didn't put much stock in that theory. However I did
find the website Mark gave us and took the yeast test questionaire.
Most of the symptoms were symptoms that indeed are bothering me.
All summer I haven't felt "up to par" although my disease has been
continuing to improve. Sooooooo my thinking is to go ahead and follow the
yeast diet, do all the other things to treat for yeast and IF I didn't have
it in the first place......what have I lost? And if I really did and it
improves I have gained a whole lot! Just my 2 cents worth. I have sent for
the yeast book (actually 2 of them) from Amazon and they should be here
today. Will let you know how it goes. Judy (deejay_

I was just wondering how the Olive Leaf gang are doing. Mark, are you
still herxing? And, Yoly, are you finding great benefit? I'm asking
because it's looking like antibiotics are out for me and I might have to
find something else to go after the RA. Deb

A friend sent me an article from "Health Sciences Institute " about
infopeptides, trade name, Cytolog, for the treatment of RA & OA pain &
inflammation. "According to researchers, '[This] small-chain
polyprotein-rich peptide...activates an underactive immune system,
helping it move into action against disease-causing organisms. It also
suppresses an overactive immune system such as is often seen in the
autoimmune diseases.'" Anyone know about it?

Hello..............would the person who passed on the information about SPES get
back to me? I accidentially deleted you before I could reply. Thanx.
Joey

Hi,
Anybody live in or near this place? I called the 800 number listed
on the website but only reached a company in MD that takes the orders.
The woman told me there were no side effects but I wondered about
contraindications; such as, if you could take it with pred. etc... I
don't see any reason why not as I think many of us have used these
supplements alone or in some combination. What do you think? I am
really tempted as I can get a refund if it doesn't help.
Denise
NC

Hi,
Has anyone tried arthro-7 from Gero Vita in Toronto?
A friend sent me a booklet about this. It mentions that anyone with
one of these these(arthritis) diseases probably has eye problems from
the degeneration of collagen.
This supplement contains:
chicken collagen type II which contains natural G/C
msm(not related to sulfa drugs)
cmo
bromelain
curcumin
vit C
lipase
The newsletter, also, mentions Dr. T.E. Trentham of Harvard who did
a double blind study with RA patients and found the majority showed
excellent improvement within three months and 14% in remission.
They claim improvement in 2-6 weeks. One month supply $29.95
(discount from $39.95)+ $4.00 S&H money back guarantee. Three months
$69.95 and six months $109.95.
Denise
NC

http://www.nosscr.org/faqind.html Good link on FAQ's about Soc. security
benefits.

Now you just gotta love this study - read it and check out who funded this
study. Sure gives you some confidence in these numbers! LOL

http://womenshealth.medscape.com/4946.rhtml
Article on a rare side effect observed in minocycline teatment of acne. If not
registered with medscape, you need to go to www.medscape.com and register a
password to read articles there, it's free.

Interesting letter from a dentist to other dentists re. mercury fillings.
http://www.teleport.com/~ctseng/cfs_pages/letter.html

Interesting stuff - http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0025/2000.asp
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day; Lodine 400mg 3x/day;Olive Leaf;
ZoneDiet
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

Mike asked:
So the TMJ pain was a lymph node swelling/infection? (I ask because I
recently got pain at my right TMJ)?
Was the dentist able to confirm this?
Thanks,
Mike
Now me:
Hmmm...it wasn't pain down in the TM joint itself. Have you ever had an
exposed nerve or cracked filling? The pain was closer to this. When I
swallowed something on the right side of my mouth, I experienced an
excrutiating sharp pain. Sometimes I would have to stop and grip the edge
of the table for a second. That's what made me think at first that it was a
dental problem. There was inflammation and pin point tenderness in that
soft area on the face in front of the ear lobe. And yes, the dentist
confirmed that it was not a dental problem. He palpated both inside and
outside the joint. Said that he could feel a little hard roly-poly area in
that gland area - which lead him to believe that it was the gland causing
the pain.
Hope this helps -
Linda C.

Shirley asked:
months.
Dearest Shirley, et. al:
IMO, this is a **good** thing that's happening to you - and I'll tell you
why. I've had the exact same experience, and you're gonna love the results!
I started minocycline in May, 98 - daily doses alternating between 100mg and
200mg. I was within months of having to quit work and go out on disability.
You guys know the story, right? At that time, my SSA (Sjogren's syndrome
antibody) was 127 - "highly positive". My teeth were rotting out of my head
because I had no saliva- I mean **none**. I also had very little moisture
in my other mucous membranes.
OK - fast forward about 5 months. I woke up one day with excrutiating pain
in my right jaw - tender to the touch a little behind the TMJ in the parotid
gland area. I'm picturing that this is the same place you're experiencing
your pain. The dentist checked it out - no problems - it was what appeared
to be a lymph gland "infection". I started hot packs (helped!) and just
hung with it since I was already on the minocycline. That first episode
lasted about a week and a half - getting better after a few days. Now
here's the kicker - two weeks after that episode, I realized that I could
pinch the skin over my jaw!! Like many folks with scleroderma, my face was
pulling back into a mask. It had begun to soften. At my next dental
cleaning (Dec., 98), my dentist said that I could open my mouth wider and he
was happy to note some "bubbles" forming under my tongue. I had begun to
produce saliva again.
I had two more episodes after this - another on the right side (not as bad
as the first) and one on the left side (lasted 3 days). My saliva output
increased dramatically - along with my oral health. I also had an episode
when I felt as if I'd been punched in the nose -one week later I could pinch
the skin on my nose. Also has happened in the little joints around my eyes
- again, each time my "mask" has softened. One year later, my scleroderma
mask is pretty much gone. My saliva output is normal. I've had 2 rounds of
gingival grafts since January, '99 (using my own newly non-fibrous tissue,
thank you very much) and they've gone well. I'll now be able to keep my
bottom front teeth.
And the best part? When I had bloodwork done in May, '99, my SSA was below
0 - "negative". No more Sjogrens.
My doctor and I have discussed these experiences. We're both convinced that
the "episodes" with the lymph glands happened at a point when the
minocycline was cleaning them out. The pain and inflammation were the
localized reactions. I had some headaches during all this "mask melting",
which makes perfect sense as I can only imagine the amount of toxins being
washed out in that area.
I have a long way to go, but the normalization of my SSA was the first
tangible evidence that the AP is working. So, Shirley, here's hoping that
the pain/inflammation that you're having is your own "cleaning house".
Please don't forget to tell us when your SSA returns to normal.
Blessings,
Linda C.
MCTD (scleroderma, Raynaud's, lupus) 10 years, AP 13 months

Dear Group,
A while ago we had a largely academic discussion on sponsorship of our
website by a drug company, i.e. Pfizer. Since the drug that I used to cure
my arthritis was Zithromax, a Pfizer product, I decided to share my
experience with them.
I received the following reply from Dr. Pierre D. Roland, Vice president and
Medical Director of Pfizer.
"There have been many reported cases of clinical improvement of chronic
arthritis following treatment with a variety of antibacterial agents, even
though no antobiotic is currently approved for the treatment of chronic
arthritic conditions. There is still no good explanation as to why some
patients would respond to such therapy, although many theories do exist.
Some rheumatologists have questioned that there is a link between the
clincal improvement and the intake of antibiotics, attributing the remission
to chance, arthritis frequently demonstrating a natural pattern of remission
and exacerbations."
If we cannot convince the company with the most to gain from the protocol, we
have a serious challenge in making this protocol the first line of defence.
Brian
RA 3 yrs, AP 14 mths, Remission/Cure 4 mths

My yearlong quest to find a cause & cure for my (psoriatic) arthritis and
possibly psoriasis has finally hit upon something!
I had a DMPS challenge test (chelation) which showed very high levels of
Mercury and Aluminum! Some research shows that mercury is related to the
onset of autoimmune diseases (and hopefully once it is gone the disease will
go too).
So, I'm starting chelation therapy tomorrow - 1 every 3 weeks, 20 times in
total. I had all my amalgam fillings (7 total) replaced 6 months ago.
Has anyone else done heavy metal testing and/or chelation? Any meaningful
results?
Thanks,
Mike

Don't know the particulars on this, but in some cases an RX from the doctor
for Folic Acid daily might be indicated. BG