Auto-immune diseases

That is wonderful news Geoff. Congratulations and thanks for sharing the
news with us.
Kari

Hello Elizabeth,
That is wonderful news! I would love to hear more of your story.
Bye,
Kari

This is too good to keep to myself!
Software VS Hardware
MICROSOFT SHOULD MAKE CARS, GM SHOULD MAKE SOFTWARE.
At a recent computer expo, Bill Gates reportedly compared
the computer industry with the auto industry and stated:
"If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry
has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got
1000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments/General Motors issued a press
release stating the following: "If GM had developed technology
like Microsoft, we would be driving cars with the following
characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a
day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would
have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, your car would die on the freeway for no
reason, and you would accept this, restart, and drive on.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn
would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart;
in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you
bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT.' Then you would have to buy
more seats.
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun,
was more reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy
to drive, but would only run on five percent of the roads.
7. The oil, water, temperature and alternator warning lights
would be replaced by a single 'general car fault' warning
light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same butt
size.
9. The airbag system would say 'Are you sure?' before going
off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would
lock you out and refuse to let you in until you
simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and
grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a
deluxe set of Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary),
even though they neither need them nor want them. Attempting
to delete this option would immediately cause the car's
performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would
have to learn how to drive all over again because none of
the controls would operate in the same manner as the old
car.
13. You'd press the 'Start' button to shut off the engine.

The minocin was for the mycoplasma, and the EryBid for my high strep count
(ASO). My dr actually said I should switch from Minocin to Erybid - but I
just didn't want to risk a backslide on my arthritis! (I didn't tell me
doc).
I hope this decision has not rendered one/both inneffective...
-Mike-

Hi Group! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Most of us are familiar with rheumatoid nodules, especially prevelant in
the elbow area. Good news here - I had some 1/4", even one 1/2"
diameter. They're gone. :)
Nothing like a bit of improvement to give you a good outlook on life!
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

I recently received a document (book) regarding the use of Metronidazole (an
antibiotic) to cure rheumatoid illnesses.
More research on the net shows that metronidazole is often used in
conjunction with tetracyclines for treating bacterial-based disorders (like
Rosacea - a skin illness).
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks,
Mike

I went in for a checkup and bunch of blood tests today. The crock was in
the last seven years I always have to wait an hour or more to see doc.
Today I am held up 10 minutes by road construction and he was off to
lunch. So had to wait till 1:30 to see him and not eat because of
getting cholesterol checked too. Anyway my blood tests were the best
they have ever been. My esinophils were ok and most everything else. I
didnt get the sed rate report back yet and am anxious to see that cause
my sed rate has stayed up near 60 for a long time. My cholesterol was
246 but my HDL was 110 and the LDL was undetectable! Triglicerides 90.
He says with such a high HDL no need to worry about the total being high
when the HDL ratio is so good. This is a ratio of approx. 2.34
He figures my continued fatigue and sometimes stiffness is due to my
immune system still fighting the RA and effecting my body in the
process. I asked him if RA or OA has caused my toes to get clawlike. He
said OA can some but he would suspect its RA. Interesting because this
started happening years before I was diagnosed with the RA. My toes
themselves never swelled and didnt hurt much altho sometimes the middle
ones would. I had most pain in the balls of my feet and had the neuroma
operation for it. This did help some but it didnt relieve all the pain
and now the orthopedic doctor attributes it to RA.
He also said that he is now treating a bunch of his asthma patients with
Doxycycline and is seeing a lot of improvement. After turning him on to
the AP protocol I sent him the info about most asthmatics having
mycoplasmas in the lungs and he looked into that.
I also copped a Time mag with an article about the growing resistance to
antibiotics that I will scan and put in the group files on onelist. Its
interesting and wondering if it has implications for us on the AP
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

hi I want to thank, you all, for imforation on fingers and hand operation, I
still like to hear from more people, so i can show my doctor, just to check
into it a little better for half bent fingers i cant ben them,or strighting
out HELP thanks for you all for e mail MARIE from MAINE

Hi Folks,
I don't say much these days (too busy) but I am so glad that this group
is available. Now I need some help. I received an e-mail from a women
in Greensboro N.C. who wants to try AP but says there is no way her
doctor will go for it. Who and Where are the AP docs in N.C.???
Thanks!

<A HREF="http://consumer.findlaw.com/"
Center
</A
Jeannie
\\\\|////
( o o )
--oO0o------U------oO0o---

Hi Group! Geoff Crenshaw here.
This is OT (Off Topic) so if you're not interested - please delete.
We are looking for some help handling internet leads for our travel
business. These are commission-only setups but since it is all through
the computer and such and a bunch of us here are in a bad way but can at
least write with some degree of lucidity, I thought maybe somebody might
be interested.
If you are, please contact me privately off list via e-mail.
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Dear Group/Ethel:
I am having trouble getting through to East Park at 1-800-656-8367 to order
the Olive Leaf. The recording ask for the "access code"- ???????
Help!
Thanks,
Carol*

After all the comments about insurance and HMO's, I thought this to be
appropriate.
Judy in SC
THREE NURSES
Three nurses died and went to Heaven, where they were met
at the Pearly Gates by St. Peter. To the first, he asked,
"What did you used to do back on Earth? Why do you
think you should be allowed to come into Heaven?"
"I was a nurse at an inner city hospital," she replied.
"I worked to bring healing and peace to many sufferers,
especially poor, helpless children."
"Very noble," said St. Peter. "You may enter."
And in through the Gates she went.
To the next, he asked the same question. "What did you
used to do?" "Why do you think you should be allowed to
come into Heaven?"
"I was a nurse at a missionary hospital in the Amazon basin,"
she replied. "For many years, I worked with a skeleton crew
of doctors and nurses who tried to reach out to as many people
across numerous tribes, with a hand of healing and peace, and
with the message about God's love."
"How touching," said St. Peter. "You, too, may enter."
And in she went.
He then came to the last nurse, to whom he asked, "What
did you used to do back on Earth? Why do you think you should
be allowed to come into Heaven?"
After some hesitation, she replied, "I was a nurse at an HMO."
St. Peter pondered this for a moment, and then said, "Ok, you
may enter, too."
"Whew!" said the nurse. "For a moment there, I thought you
weren't going to let me in."
"Oh, you can come in," said St. Peter, "but you can only stay
for three days."

Great idea, Donna. Please share your ICQ numbers with me too.
Also, Ute I've lost your email address, please write to me.
Update: I'm feeling much better since my asthma has gotten better, from 58% to
now 92%, and all my energy isn't going to breathing. Still taking all the
inhalers, but not using the nebulizer, at least for 10 days.
I've even been able to work with my flowers and have my hands in the dirt, which
brings me such pleasure. Life is good today, even with my diseases!!!
Hugs, Jani

I just want to share with the group my recent sucess. I started on CS about <
6 months ago--but was taking just a dropper full of Source Natural's 10ppm
CS. I have severe RA and Lyme Disease and have been suddenly confined to a
wheelchair in Mar 98 with pain in hips and knees. (RA everywhere in
extremities.) Nothing has helped much in the last year until now
(antibiotics, etc--I am not taking DMARDs). I have been on antibiotics for 8
years, with one remission.
In the last month from many of your postings, I increased CS--about 1 oz AM
and PM and am also taking Minocin. I rub some CS on the joints too. I had the
worst herx--it was a "mental" type--I was so depressed I literally wanted to
die. The pain didn't help the situation. I was ready to try
Methotrexate--that's desparate for me.
But now I can hardly believe the difference--I still can't walk yet as a lot
of damage was done, but I can stand easier, the pain is gone from my hips!!
and leaving my knees. I am actually going down on my Prednisone!! From 10 to
7.5mg every other day. This would have been impossible due to my pain levels
6 weeks ago. I take other supplements that are helping some too, to rebuild,
of course. I've started to gain weight back (from < 100) and my hair is
better, etc. All good signs.
I am so excited and happy with the results. I plan to make my own CS soon,
but this is working and I wanted to share the results. Maybe it could help
someone.
Susan

Anyone had experience with a product called Arthro-7? It is a combination of
things--herbs, etc. A friend is reporting pain relief for gout, osteo type
arthritis.
Just wondering.....
Susan

Hi all,
Can I get your ICQ numbers so I can catch you when I'm in a surfing (canoeing up
here in the great white North) mode.
Cheers,
Donna

I took MSM for about 2 months, then I figured I was allergic to it,
because I had so much flaring, nausea, gas, indigestion, depression,pain,
pain and more pain. Anyway I quit taking it about 3 or 4 weeks ago and I
felt somewhat better. A friend of mine goes to an accupuncture doctor
(she has fibromyalgia) and he has her taking msm. He said 4 of his
patients who have fibromyalgia have gone into remission, using it. (I
have RA, btw). Anyway, he told her that it would cleanse her body,
and while the toxins were being flushed out she would experience a lot of
discomfort (pain, tiredness, nauseau, etc.) Sounds kinda like a herx from
taking the antibiotics. So, perhaps I'm not allergic to msm after all.
Maybe it was working and I should start taking it again. ????? I was
taking 3,000 mg a day before, should I go back to that? Or take a higher
(lower) dose?
Thanks for your help, Sandy

Hi folks,
I've sent this to a couple of people lately who seemed to be
able to follow it without any problems at all to join the
chat group. I know that it's not for everyone, but I also
know most of us haven't a clue how to join. A lot don't even
know it exists. So, I thought I'd post this for everyone.
1. Go to www.onelist.com on the web. (should be able to just
type it in)
2. On the left there is a place to sign in. Do this using
your email address and
"ilcpsklr" for the password. No quotes obviously, and you
can change the password when
you get in there to something you can remember.
3. Click Member Center to actually sign in. If you want to
change your password, this is
the place to do it.
4. On the left is a place to Find A List. Put APchat into it
and hit Find.
5. APchat will come up and you can then click Subscribe To
This Community.
6. You will then have to choose between normal, digest, and
maybe something else. Normal gets you all the messages just
like you are getting from the rheumatic list.
If you need to change it later, you do it where you first
signed into the Member Center.
NOW!! (LOL)means Laughing OutLoud. Be prepared for posts
with only one line, all sorts of extraneous topics
(gardening has been a popular one), lots of support,
lots of emotion! That's the purpose of the list. APchat is
the anything except abuse goes site. Friends talking about
anything and everything.
Hope you join and add to the ambience!
Best - Jan K

Hi,
I wondered if there was any possibility of making a minor
change to how the mail is routed when replying to a post. In
Netscape, anyway, if I do a Reply, it fills in the
individual's name that sent the post. If I do a Reply All,
it fills in the individual's name and the rheumatic list. I
suspect that this is why so many people send double
messages. When I want to reply to only the list, I have to
say Reply All and then manually delete the individual's name
to prevent them from getting hit twice with the same
message. It's a pain in the pitooti and a lot of folks may
not even realize they're double messaging by not deleting
the individual.
Every other list I've ever belonged to has responded
automatically to the list when I hit Reply and I know APchat
is set up this way as well. Granted to send a private
message the first time I would have to delete rheumatic on
the Reply All, but after that the other party's and my
correspondence is the normal Reply.
So, any chance this list can be set up this way as well? I
suspect it would solve most of the double messaging problem
that some of us have as well as make responding a little
less complicated.
Best - Jan K

Hey all,
I was just wondering if anyone on the list has or knows anything
about sarcoidosis? My mom's lung doc still has to do a
bronchoscopy to determine what is on my mom's lung, and when my
mom went to get her CT scan done a week ago, he said, "could be
cancer, could be resistant pnuemonia, could be a sarcoidosis..."
My mom's opthamologist, who treats her iritis, mentioned that he
has a few patients who have sarcoidosis.
Are antibiotics also used to treat sarcoidosis?
Thanks,
Kyla

Here are two links to Medscape articles on arthritis, both mention some possible
infective causes:
Seronegative Spondyloarthropathies
http://www.medscape.com/4181.rhtml
Arthritis: Approach to Common Group of Diseases
http://www.medscape.com/4271.rhtml
You have to register at www.medscape.com to read articles there, it is free.

In case anyone here is using this antibiotic, Trovan, a quinalone, here is a
warning, copied from Pharminfobytes:
FDA ISSUES PUBLIC HEALTH ADVISORY ON LIVER TOXICITY ASSOCIATED WITH THE
ANTIBIOTIC TROVAN
(MedWatch) The Food and Drug Administration issued a public health
advisory on 9 June 1999 to physicians concerning the risks of
liver toxicity associated with the use of Trovan (trovafloxacin,
an oral antibiotic) and Trovan-IV (alatrofloxacin, the intravenous
formulation of the drug). This action follows postmarketing
reports of rare but severe liver injuries leading to transplants
and deaths.
URL: http://pharminfo.com/medwatch/mwrpt80.html

Oh no..
First my wrist, then feet, then hips, then shoulders, now my JAW! My jaw
(right side) is swelling up and it's hard to chew (even talk)
I'm taking quite a drug cocktail already:
- Sulfasalazine (3g/day)
- Erythromycin (erybid 3x/day)
- Minocin (200g MWF)
- Naproxen (500g/day)
(on top of all vitamins, antioxidants, colostrum, etc)
And still getting worse!
Does anyone have any ideas for getting this jaw swelling down? I can't
really ice it or I get a headache...
Thanks,
Mike

In a message dated 6/13/99 7:24:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pioneer@... writes:
<< Does anyone know exactly what law is being referred to here? I have heard
it
referred to before, but have not seen it myself. My doctor takes both
medi-cal and cash patients too. Something doesn't ring true here, what about
people who don't qualify for the medicare programs and don't have other
insurance? In this area there are few doctors to choose from and I'm pretty
sure all of them take medi-cal patients. Who would be left for those with no
coverage at all? Liz G
Hi Liz,
The way it works is this. If you belong to a Risk HMO HCFA sends the HMO a
check every month and then the HMO takes care of all your illnesses. They
get a set amount every month, which is another story. Dade County, FL and
New York City get 3 times and 4 times the amount of a small county. I've
just been reading the guide lines and formulas and I'll never figure it out
in a million years and I doubt anyone can except the Bureaucrats who write
the forumulas.
Anyway because the HMO where you live has a contract with HCFA or Medicare to
treat you, you cannot go outside of your system. They give the rotten excuse
that people would be taken advantage of and so they have to protect us. That
one I have never figured out. So you have to stay with your provider Drs.
and cannot even pay CASH outside the provider group.
Trust me it is all true, ask your Conressman about it. He will tell you. If
you don't belong to an HMO you can go to whomever you wish on Medicare. Like
BC&BS for instance.
I'ts just like OSHA taking care of us from the cradle to the grave. Our
shower in our new house turns the cold water on first IN CASE WE BURN
OURSELVES. It is sad that so many people don't realize how much power and
control the Fed. Gov has on our everyday lives.
Hope this clarifies somewhat.
Hugs, Anita
RA 26 years, Fibro, AP 16 months

Where is Lisbeth? I don't see her posts anymore. What a luv we have lost if
she's not posting anymore. Is she alright? Lisbeth?
Anita

I want to thank everyone who responded to my email - was I ever surprised! A few
questions - is there a way for me to respond to a specific person...or does my
message go out to everyone, every time? I'll get the hang of this yet, but in
the meantime I'll have questions - some of them dumb.
Made a mistake in my med dosage - I am presently taking doxy 3x a week, not a
day as I stated. I am also taking acidophillus and have not had any problems
with yeast or any of the other problems that can arise from taking antibiotics.
I have also adopted the "Eating for your blood type" diet, which helps
tremendously with my digestion - when I follow it. Sometimes I backslide, then
indigestion and gas come visiting. I've found this diet to be very
beneficial...just staying away from the forbidden foods (many of which are
favorites!) eliminates lots of problems. Am also doing (daily) vit C,
multi-vit, garlic, flaxseed oil, an immune system booster, and vit E. Have
stayed away from ugly things like prednisone (actually, that stuff scares me to
death...I am at high risk for many of its side effects and prefer to avoid it).
I have a brother with RA and he has taken everything from gold injections to
who-knows-what. His advise to me is that why worry about side effects at "our
age". He is no better off than I, and what he has had to trade for some pain
relief seems to be no bargain to me. I really can/do get paranoid about taking
stuff. For me, less is more!
Anyway...thanks for listening.
Joey

hi Diane th anks but would you find the number for me, I dont have thebook
or Doc. did it hurt can you button blouse how bad was your fingers,and
address how to get there or name of hosp, well i screw up this letter, hun.
where did you stay, would this doc talk to my dr. and you type me a letter so
he can see that it can be done i believe it CAN BE DONE
everything you can think of ok, i really need this imforation, means so much
to me, DID YOU HAVE ALL THREE DEASES YOU THINK THATS THE REASON< gee I wish
your DR
Maine diane I cant get thru your email unless I use REhumatic list how come

Hello Jan.....glad to see that my message finally got through - third time is a
charm.
I made a mistake on my current med's: I'm taking doxy 100mg 3x a WEEK, not a
day.
I would enjoy hearing your story.
Joey

Cancel that request for a copy of Mercola's nutritional protocol. Being in
a hurry, I didn't wait for his whole website to load in before checking
around. As a result, I didn't take the time to check "Read this first"; I
read it last. Anyway, I got my copy from his website.
Linda

Could someone send me a copy of Dr. Mercola's Nutritional Protocol? I'm
printing some information for a friend who was just diganosed with RA, and I
can't find his protocol anywhere, even on his website. I've asked Chris,
but I just realized with the difference in time zones, she may not get my
request till tomorrow, and I was hoping to get this done today. Thanks for
your help.
Linda

Dear Grp:
I am wondering if I have a good understanding of Olive Leaf? Besides being
anti-fingal doesn't it also kill mycoplasma? If this is true can we use
Olive Leaf instead of Doxy?
I just took my first round of Clind IV'S (after jumping through hoops for 14
months to get them) Now I go back to Doxy 100mg MWF until the next round of
IV'S. I have a script here for Zithromax that I got from Dr Francos' office
last January. He said I could try this if I could not get the IV therapy.
Because I have a stomach disease he was unsure as to whether I would be able
to tolerate it- as the ERYTABS almost blew me away! So I never filled the
script.
My question: Would it be smart to try the Zithromax twice a week in these
next 4 weeks OR go up to 200mg Doxy MWF. I have never done this because I
have an ongoing yeast problem with the low dose Doxy. * My disease has not
responded in any way to the AP so far.
I would then be using Doxy and Zithromax- and Clind IV. Need guidance!
Carol*
RA 4 yrs AP 18 months

Hello...my name is Joey Sala and I have RA. Ray Barrett suggested that I
connect with your group and I am looking forward to doing just that.
First off, I would like to mention that I am new to the internet and this is
my 3rd attempt to send this message. If somehow the other two got through, I
apologize for what must seem like overkill.
A bit of history about myself. I've had RA for about 11 years. Officially
diagnosed about 6 years ago. On the advice of my medical caregiver I contacted a
rheumatologist - three hours away - and left her care after the sulfasalazine I
was on failed to produce results and her drug of choice for me was gold in some
form. My next doctor - 2 hours away - started me on methotrexate. Six months
later when I complained that I was getting no relief, he suggested we up the
dosage of methotrexate and add prednisone. I couldn't get out of his office fast
enough!
I then saw a homeopathic doctor, and though I benefited in some ways, the
remedies did nothing for the RA. Next I saw (and still am) a kenesiologist
(please excuse the spelling). Again, I am benefitting in ways that do not
directly affect the RA. We are working at keeping my intenal organs healthy and
boosting my immune system.
Last summer a friend sent me Dr. Brown's book and I immediately knew I wanted
to try this! Did some research, and luckily my local doctor agreed to go this
route with me. I began antibiotic therapy October 6, 98. A blood test prior to
beginning the therapy (9/2/98) showed my RF to be 727 - quite high according to
my doctor. We began with IM injections of clindamycin 300mg every day for 2
weeks. This was followed with injections once a week and doxycycline 50mg 3
times a week (this was raised to 100mg after about a month).
A second blood test (1/13/99) showed that my RF had dropped to 600, and my SED
rate was 60. This really excited my doctor and I! And, I was feeling pretty good
- I was sleeping better and I just generally felt that things weren't quite so
bad. This lasted a few months, then I began backsliding. I blamed most of the
aches and pains on eating foods from my "forbidden" list, and from
overexertion.....I was still so stoked about the drop in my RF that the results
of my latest blood work (4/1/99) nearly floored me...and my doctor! My RF had
gone up to 895 and my SED rate to 81. Took me a while to realize that most
probably I was experiencing the old "getting worse before getting better"
syndrome.
So, new blood work due in July, and I expect that it will not show a drop. My
meds at the time are 100mg doxycycline 3 times a day and IM injections
clindamycin every two weeks. I'm taking 1500mg Ecotrin (coated aspirin) a day
for inflamation, and am taking vit's and supplements. I'm worse than I've ever
been for such a length of time, and to tell the truth, I'm only a very stubborn
streak away from crawling into bed and staying there! I manage to get around at
home with a cane, but need a wheelchair to go anywhere. Thank God I can still
drive so I am not house-bound. I am an art instructor at a local college, on
summer break, and have every intention of returning to my job in the
fall.....stubborn streak, don't fail me now!
Fortunately I am not prone to severe depression, and the people around me do a
lot to keep me going when I do get depressed. But I desperately need the support
and advice of those who have walked - and are walking - in my shoes. I want to
share experiences...I have faith that this treatment will work, and I know that
severe cases can take years and I'm prepared to deal with this - but I sure do
need some energy from those who have been where I am.
Well, that's my story. Nothing very unique. I look forward to hearing from
some of you - actually, I can't wait.
Sincerely, Joey Sala

Hello,
It just isn't good for me, I can't breathe with this. I looked up more
closely on the side effects on the drug and it states that those who have
allergies and are asthmatic have problems at times with the drug. Soooo, I
am unable to use this one. I am lucky that I have a nebulizer and oxygen at
home, it helps get me out of trouble.
Take care, Kathryn

Dear group,
It's finally up at www.rheumatic.org again. The provider eventually got in
contact with their 'ops' guy who was the only one authorised to change
passwords. Weird. I did help desk for two years for an internet service
and the most common problem was with passwords.
Steve tells me that Netscape views relative fonts the way I coded them but
Explorer will show them as much bigger. So I'll have to put them back to
fixed size fonts again - I used Composer for the first time and it puts
the relative sizing in. Think I'll go back to my primitive manual method.
Going to have a break now, so see you after the weekend :)
Chris.

To Who ever can answer,
I had a test to see why there was blood in my urine. The doctor gave me some
antibiotics to take for 4 days. The name of the anitbiotic was Macrobid. I
am having so much pain and swelling. Even the darvon is not helping. I
though maybe it was a herx, but my friend said maybe I was allergic to it.
How can you tell if you are allergic to the antibiotic or if you are having a
herx reaction.
Thanks in advance,
Pat

In a message dated 6/12/99 9:36:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Anihan@...
writes:
<< How would you like to live in Florida where there was Tort Reform passed
in
1990 or 1994 where Drs. can "Practice" medicine and cannot be sued for
malpractice or negligence by children or relatives if the children or
relatives are under the age of 25.
It's OVER age 25.
Anita

Hi Paula
Quote from Sarah
disability other than they consider his diagnosis of you. It usually
takes about a year at the least with arthritis
I have never heard of this before. I got my notice of acceptance in ONE
week. It could be because my Rheumy in Mpls knew what to do for me. First of
all he made copies of all my records (there was a stack and inch thick.) Now
this is the best part; he wrote a personal letter to S.S. as a cover letter
in front of my file stating why I had to go on Disability.
When I went to the Intake person from S.S. she looked it all over and I had
to fill out some forms in her presence. Questions, about how far you can
walk, how much you can lift etc. and then she took it from there and I had my
notice of acceptance in ONE WEEK.
The reasons it takes so long going to S.S. first is because they take forever
to get all of your records from your Drs. and process them. They write to
the Drs. when they get around to it and then the Drs. office sends Copies
when they get around to it. If you have all the work done before hand it is
a snap. It took 3 WEEKS for my husbands to come through.
I don't think you need an attorney if you have substantial evidence of Dr.
appts. etc. A letter from your Dr. as I mentioned is real key for it to be
expedited. Put that letter in the front of your file when you go to Intake.
That's all there's to it. If your older it helps too, I think, because they
absolutely hate to get young people on because then they have to pay for too
many years. Figure?
Hope this encourages you,
Anita
RA 26 years, Fibro, AP 16 months

Hi,
My rheumy was head of Rehab at a university hospital. She told me
what I needed.
Lab work proving RA
Dr. exam documenting range of motion; ability to sit, stand; walk;
run; lie down etc...
Fill out the form they give you.
I was approved in three weeks.
HTH
Denise
NC

Hi,
Bastyr(sp?) University is one school for training naturopaths.
Raleigh has two listings for ND's. Those are the only credentials given
and they are not listed with physicians. I don't think an ND is an MD.
or DO. unless they don't use those credentials.
Denise
NC

Mark,
I either get my email returned or don't get any response therefore I
am responding to the list.
I have tried many herbal supplements; in addition, to NSAIDS and
DMARDS. Unfortunately, I have never experienced a placebo effect. The
only things that I have been able to take and that have worked for me
are aspirin, pred., and ra spes.
HTH
Denise
NC

Hi group,
Can anyone tell me what is the maximum amount of olive leaf extract that
can be taken? I bought some that is pretty weak compared to the ones that I
have seen advertised, THe capsules are 200 mg but only 10 percent
oleurapein ( 20 mg).
Thanks abunch!
Leslie

Paula your doctor really has nothing to do towards your getting
disability other than they consider his diagnosis of you. It usually
takes about a year at the least with arthritis. You dont have to go get
all these tests and reports first. Social security will make
appointments for you to go to their doctors and they pay for it. They
will deny you thru the first year and usually award it at the appearance
before their judge. If you are in the US your best bet is to get an
attorney who specializes in getting disability. They system is setup so
that this is the best way to get it. If you go to the supportlinks page
you will find link to the disability info from SS on the net.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

When my wrists or elbow hurt I use a splint. I got those stretching
braces you can get at Walmart or anywhere) It helps me to still use the
offending joints without further hurt and they get better sooner. I
usually dont wear it when not doing something that stresses those
joints. I also wear a back brace before doing things would hurt my back
(If I can remember) If I do wear it I can often prevent days afterward
of pain.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

My chiropractor said he just read an article which linked Fibromyalgia to
Herpes virus # 6 or some such. Anyone hear of this?
Peace,
Penny

"I think we still need to keep the rest of the organism healthy!"
Dr. Chiu -
I don't understand what you meant by this. Are you saying that metho is
"selective", that it only suppresses some part of the immune system and that
therefore a healthy diet is necessary to support the rest of the immune
system?
Sorry, still confused.
Mark

Dear group,
Steve found my configuration problem in about ten minutes. I had my PAP
authentication in the wrong place, now shouldn't I have known that?
So then we dialled in to upload the files only to find that the password
they gave me doesn't work. The technicians there said that the account
hasn't been set up properly and they don't have access to fix it. The guy
who does won't be in until Tuesday (long weekend here).
I've uploaded the new version of the web page to
http://www.chariot.net.au/~cadlard so you can all look at it there for the
moment. All feedback welcome :)
Chris_whose_patience_is_starting_to_wear_thin :)

Hi!
Yoly was reading this article at Better Health
(http://www.betterhealth.com/) and thought it might be of interest to you.
H/She also wanted to let you know:
Here's the article:

Can someone give me the information about the iodine test for thyroid? I
tried it last fall and everything was fine. I did it today and found it
mostly absorbed after 10 hours. I'll try it again overnight.
Also, does the thyroid regulate body temperature?
Linda

Geoff,
You know it makes me wonder if what some people are experiencing when they
get quick relief with herbals, etc is the placebo effect?
I've tried circumin, boswellia, ginger, MSM, evening primrose oil -
nothing - got off of them all and can't tell a difference.
I do buy into your thinking that while there is inflammation and swelling,
damage is going on, so right now my bones are crumbling and my docs think
I'm an idiot probably for remaining on the minocycline rather than
swallowing the metho.
So tell me once again please where I can get the RA-Spes - worth a try -
heck , I've certainly spent enough money trying the other options - might as
well spend a few more bucks. If it will kill the inflammation and pain, it
will be worth it in the short haul.
Thanks,
Mark
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA 4/98 AP 7/98
Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day; Lodine 400mg 3x/day
RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

hi kelly i do not know your email but iam trying to learn how to get on these
email you all gave me but they come back. so iam doing something wrong but
thanks for imforation on bents fingers, gee i do hope The DR will look at me,
I got to do something, I came a log way from these thee deases, feel good my
DR say I am doing good but my fingers scleroderma is coming along find, the
med is ok never got sick with it two dr. says Iam doing, but i do need help
my ALET THEY SAY, its the other med oh well iam looking into the ALERT thro
drug STORE thanks kelly. MARIE from Maine

hi diane gee please tell me more, i want my dr,to do operation he said no gee
was yours half bent explain i sure can use all the helpi can; get, make me
feel good and to look into it,i show my dr. about N
and phone no. so my DR can call. well I thank you so so much, how do you feel
nowe and your fingers can you move them and straigthing them out. can you
work with them, thanks for helping,marie from maine

Just rec'd this today. Source (Todd) is my cousin who runs computer
support op's for Mirage Casinos, Inc. Alert is real. Item is a Melissa
knock-off. Simple step to help -- turn ON Macro Virus Detection if you
use MS Word.
Geoff
--
This virus has been confirmed as real. We were hit at the Mirage
yesterday. New anti-virus protection can be found at both McAfee and
Norton web sites.
Todd

Hello,
Well, I am off to a bad start. Twenty minutes after taking my Cipro, I had
lung problems. I talked with my pharmacist and asked him if there was any
glycerin in it and there isn't but there is corn which I am also allergic
too. I had to take benedryl and three treatments by nebulizer. I am told to
try another dose to make sure it was that, soooooo tonight I will try
another dose. I will definitely have the benedryl not to far.
anybody else have problems??? I am not expecting that anyone would since I
am really an oddball who is allergic to everything.
I shall let you know what happens.
Hugs to all,
Kathryn

I've preached and preached about sending out virus alerts before checking
them out. I've check this one... it's real.
Feel free to forward this but be kind. Cut & paste to a clean message.

Twice in the last few weeks someone has posted something about Roger
Wyburn-Mason's treatments for RA and other rheumatological diseases
using antiameobic/antifungal agents. I am also rereading Dr. Clarks "Why
Arthritis?" and he mentions this as well (though just barely, and then
simply to ask the question why has no one looked into/studied this
theory).
Does anybody else know anything about this? It seems very interesting
and not necessarily at odds with what we are doing here. The "book" that
someone
uploaded a few weeks back even reads a lot like "The Road Back" by Dr.
Brown.
Any insights? Anyone?!
j.

Hello all,
I live near a university med. school and occasionally use their library
when I want to read/copy a full-text article vs only an abstract, or
read a letter in relation to a published article, etc.
If you are not near a univ. medical library -or- having difficulty
walking from one room to the next, much less mastering your way around
a library where books may be difficult to reach, either up or down, try
calling your local (US) public library.
I've found most public libraries subscribe to several medical journals.
If they don't have the journal you're looking for, they can look in
their computer database to see which library does carry it, and request
either the journal be loaned to them or the article be photocopied, to
be mailed to you at home. They are kind of slow tho' - sometimes 4
weeks. I've never been charged for this. And, I've done it all by
phone from home.
You'll need the name of the publication, date, volume/issue #, pages
the article appears on, first author, and subject of the article.
Another option is to order the full-text articles via NIH/NLM website
and/or via most university medical school libraries. The cost varies,
but typically speaking runs $10 per article. I've forgotten, but I
think (?) they charge more to snail mail a copy then to send one
electronically via email.
Just some alternatives, Starla

I'm not sure this message showed up. For some reason, I've stopped receiving
my onelist mail and 2 messages I posted (one which is below) do not appear
in the archives (unless I missed them). So hopefully, this isn't a repeat!

Dear Group:
I want to thank all of you who wrote me re my quiery about didronel. I
have been searching the net for alternative stuff for eleaviating this
osteop. Come to find out that all the trex and plaquinel and all the
other junk thrown at me (and caught by me) has thinned my old bones. Go
figure? I called by dr yesterday AM and told the nurse I didnot want to
take this as the PDR says its not approved for osteo. Well at 6PM I got
a call from by rheummy telling me I had to take it. I still haven't
decided and the script is sitting at the pharmacy. Again, thanks for
the info and the caring provided by this wonderful group of folks.
LOL Janet-Montana RAl2-APl4months.

their mouth after using prednisone for awhile? I have weaned from taking 5
mg in April, to 4 in May , to now 3 mg for June. I had a cortisone
injection in a trigger finger last week, which of course made me feel like
superwoman for a few days after. But since having the injection, I have
the yucky tast all the time and my lungs are wanting to have asthma- type
symptoms( which I haven't had since starting the doxi...this was the first
major improvement i experienced)

The Toronto Star, June 11, 1999:
"David Sullivan of the Scepens Eye Reasearch Institute in Boston has been
studying horminal regulation of the eye and found that androgens such as
testosterone play an important role in Sjogren's.
Merely placing a topical flm of testosterone on the eye seems to
reverse or suppress the inflammatory process....
There are three layers that make up the outer film of the eye: a
mucous sheet composed of hundreds of thousands of cells; a watery layer (the
lacrimal gland that contains antibodies that protect against infection); and
an oily, outer layer called the meibomian.
People with Sjogren's can lack enough water in the lacrimal gland. But
the majority suffer from inflammation in the meibomian layer and the immune
system response to this inflammation disrupts the normal activity of this
tissue layer.
Knowing that estrogens have been linked to autoimmune disorders and
testoterone has been shown to suppress the same process, Sullivan thought he
had a good lead to follow.
He discovered that administering testosterone suppressed the
inflammation in the gland. And, as he suspected, suppressing the
inflammatory process reversed the eye damage.
Women make about two-thirds the level of androgens that males do, which
may explain why the condition appears more often in females.
The condition generally comes on the heels of menopause, which is
precisely when estrogen and androgen levels drop. The meibomian gland is
regulated by androgens. When androgens are put back into the eye, the
meibomian layer functions normally."
Linda

Hi group,
Our web page is about to come up :) www.rheumatic.org has updated around
the world and I'll have the files there when I get home. Steve is flying
over tonight and will fix my hardware configuration problem which is
preventing me getting to the server.
You'll see I've updated the page to use less bandwidth and carried out a
few changes so that it's more efficient. There seems to be a weird font
problem in that I'm seeing it normally on several clients but people are
telling me that the fonts look huge on others. I think it might be because
I've got relative font sizes on there and might need to set it back to
fixed.
Let me know what you think. Perhaps I need to put some of the little
graphics back in to make it look more friendly? All
feedback/criticism/comments welcomed :)
Chris.

Hey all,
I was just wondering if any of you are getting regular allergy
shots to desensitize your response to allergens?
When I was a teenager, I went for skin patch testing, and was
discovered to have allergies to molds, grasses, trees, smoke,
dust mites, dust, mushrooms and acidic foods such tomatoes,
citrus, and mustard..the list goes on. I started allergy shots
and continued to have them every week..then month, for about
three years. It really did seem to improve my allergies after the
first year.
When I went back to a new doctor last year to have the skin
testing redone, I had all of the same allergies and more. But he
refused to give me allergy shots, because I told him about my
history of juvenile arthritis. At that point, I was still
enjoying a 13 year remission, and couldn't understand why he
wouldn't give me shots. But he insisted that it wasn't a good
idea to "stir" up my immune system and possibly flare my
arthritis by injecting things I was allergic to into my body. Too
risky. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
Problem is, my food allergies have become quite bad in the past
year, and there isn't much I can eat without getting hives. Being
a vegetarian for the past year, I'm used to living on fruits and
vegetables, soy, organic milk and free range organic eggs. Well,
now I'm allergic/sensitive to apples, pears, peaches, most
berries and all citrus fruits, soy, mushrooms, tomatoes..and milk
seems to flare my joints (is this possible?) and eggs seem to
flare my eczema. I can't win!
And I work with animals as a career (and I'm not speaking of
co-workers here!), and my allergy to dander has made it a tad
difficult to get through the day without feeling stuffed up.
I would love to start allergy shots again to see if it will help
improve or rid of my allergies, but would appreciate your
opinions on it. Think it's a safe option for those with
auto-immune disorders?
Also..I have yet to start antibiotics and am curious as to
whether any of you have found that your allergies improved after
AP?
Thank you,
Kyla MacKenzie
Toronto, Canada
celticfox@...

Hi every one I am back, some people comm. wont go throu, they come back, so
ill say hi again, iam stilllookinging for someone to help with these haft
bent hands HAS any one have there operator on their fingers please let me
know thanks MARIE from MAINE

Check out this link - when are docs going to get something in med school
besides the textbook approach?
http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0022/1758.asp
Mark

from the new england journal of medicine
To the Editor:
In their Image in Clinical Medicine, Giladi and Avidor (Jan.
14 issue) (1) describe a 17-year-old boy who was treated
with 14 days of oral ciprofloxacin for an infection with
Bartonella henselae after being scratched on the neck by a cat.
Unfortunately, they do not address the controversy regarding
the use of quinolones in patients under the age of 18
years.
Clinicians should be aware that the manufacturer of
ciprofloxacin states that the drug should not be used in children or
adolescents. Arthropathy has been observed in the
weight-bearing joints of immature laboratory animals, and a
transient arthropathy has been reported in at least one
16-year-old who received high doses of the drug. (2) Similar
concern about the use of the drug in children is found in the
product labeling approved by the Food and Drug
Administration and contained in the Physicians' Desk
Reference. (3)
The American Academy of Pediatrics states that the use of
quinolones may be justified in those under 18 years of age
when no other alternative anti-infective agent is
available or when other available agents would be less effective;
however, the drugs should be used only after careful
assessment of the risks and benefits for the individual
patient and after these benefits and risks have been
explained to the parents or caregivers. (2)
Brian J. Bohlmann, M.D., Ph.D.
University of Wisconsin Medical School
Madison, WI 53706
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

this is an old message from Ethel it says how much olive leaf to take
Julie

Bev this is a web site for Burgstiner....
http:www.drburgstiner.com/
I take thymulus which is the same as Immunoplex. I think its a good
price if you get all the vits and amino acids and thymuplex in one pill.
cooky

Hello Carol and friends,
I came across Geoff's posting and of course I wanted to respond to it.
Yes, there is a great help with essaic tea for cancer patients.Some have
been fully cured , others in remission while others have had an extended
time in life expectancy.
My grandmother who is 94 today drank essaic tea for over 40 years. She had
colon cancer, they removed some of her colon and they didn't think she would
survive because she had two cancers. Well, she is alive and kicking and has
better memory than I do.
I had forgotten about this totaly up until my grandmother brought it up
lately. It was great timing since I had just learned about a very close
friend and coworker who is dying of cancer. I was pretty upset since again
the doctors were thinking how we women are supposedly exaggerating. Last
May, she had pain and the doc gave NSAIDS, it did nothing, by this past
march, she had deteriorated to a point of not being able to breathe and the
did a puncture in her ribs to see what was going on. They found the cancer
and it is in its third stage. If a brighter doctor would have thought to
check this out better, she may have had a better chance of survival. But now
no, she is 33 and has a three year old daughter whom she is not expected to
live to see her fourth birthday. She is embarking on essaic tea and she has
good moral, I hope this will help her as much as it helped my grandmother.
For those of you also with loved ones with cancer, you can go to the sites
http://hwlibrarybooks/options/essaic.htm
http:www.remedies.net/herbs.htm
They offer the original recipe for th tea and also the other does offer to
buy from the site. I do believe some health stores do have the tea but some
are copycats.
Going over the site again, I realized that maybe it would be good for other
ailments also.
I hope this helps Carol,
hugs, Kathryn

Hello everyone,
Well today, my docs office called and they are adding Cipro to my antbiotic
regiment. Seeing to I have lots of lung problems and bowel, it is a good
choice. It is also a drug that wipes out Klebsiella pneumonaie. I am anxious
to see how this will work out. I will be on 1500mg a day for the next three
weeks. Hello herx!
Today, was also a day to stir up trouble at the insurance company, after a
meeting with the company showing the diagnosis and the reasons for which IV
vitamins and minerals is a necessity to survival, they will take a closer
look at my case. So, I will keep my fingers crossed that things will move in
the right direction.
Hugs to all,
Kathryn

I've been pretty quiet for the last while because I really haven't been
doing too well and I hate whining about it in case I scare off anyone just
thinking about trying AP. I'm still chugging along on the AP and I'm still
determined to stick with it but I'm getting so incredibly sick of the
terrible medical treatment I've been receiving. I've decided to change
rheums because I'm sick of trying to convince my doctor to stick with the
AP. My last appointment in April left me extremely upset and shaken. He
decided I wasn't making any progress, said he was worried about how quickly
I was getting joint damage and wanted me to stop AP and start metho
immediately, as well as go on disability for at least 6 months. I refused
the metho, insisted on the AP and said I wasn't quite ready to concede to
disability at that point.
After thinking about it for a month, I decided to try a new rheum
recommended by my local support group and also decided that I did need to
go on disability because I'm at the limit of my endurance. I called my gp
to see about the new referral and to see if he'd sign me off for
disability. He said I needed to come in for an appointment, which I did,
where I got the referral but was told I'd need an additional appointment
for a physical to go on disability. I made the appointment and had to wait
for another month for it. Yesterday was the big day and it took every
ounce of mental willpower to keep going to work this last month. Everyone
in my office is wanting me to be on disability as well (I think because it
scares them to see how fast someone can go from being active to being a
mess). Anyway, after the physical, my gp says to come to his office where
he gives me some lab forms then starts to leave. I said I still needed to
talk to him about putting me on disability and he said he didn't have
anymore time for me at that point. I repeated that this was the whole
reason for the appointment in the first place and his response was "the
government health department only pays for 30 minutes for a physical and
we've used up that time already. You'll have to come back next week." I
was so stunned that after being a patient for 15 years, he'd treat me like
this I couldn't believe it and I ended up leaving his office in tears.
It's more than obvious I'm in pretty bad shape -- he had to help me move
around for some of the things during the examine -- yet it doesn't seem to
matter that I have to drag around for at least another week before getting
an answer. It's also a big inconvenience for my office because they need
to make some plans to cover my absence. Now I wish I'd just stayed awhile
longer with my old rheum, got him to sign me off and then made my changes.
So, I'll go back next week, see if I can get this handled then and if I get
put off again, I'm considering contacting the local medical association as
it seems to me that this is shoddy treatment designed to get me to keep
coming back so more visits can be charged for. Seems to me that behaviour
isn't too ethical.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Paula

Group,
There was a question posted a week or two ago about an item named
IMMUNOL. Checking out their web site, the manufacturer of this item said
they are from Canada so Kathryn was enlisted to check it out for us. If
memory serves me it was supposed to be an herbal prep but it is
addressed here as a drug. Here is her report:

An article on possible amoebic causes of RA and a description of the herxheimer
reaction, also diet suggestions for arthritis:
www.garynull.com/Documents/Arthritis/Antiamoebic_treatment.htm

Article on disorders of the throat, including ones induced by arthritis:
http://www.wfubmc.edu/voice/immune_disorders.html

Group,
Recently a couple people on the list were diagnosed with Hepatitis C.
I read this article this morning and I thought I would pass it along.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/SecondOpinion/secondopinion.html
I know it doesn't pertain to arthritis but I felt it was important
enough to pass along.
Thanks,
jan

After a long and difficult winter, I had a less-pain morning the other day
and I marched right outside and fought a hand-to-hole battle with my resident
gopher. Needless to say, I could hardly move my hand and wrists the next day,
and 3 days later, the sharp pain in the wrists is still excruciating, which
hits me where I make my living (graphic design). Yes, I got me a case of
(Carpal) GOPHER TUNNEL!
I don't believe in splints, except sometimes at night, when my hands insist
on assuming the fetal position under my chin. If you don't use your muscles,
you lose your muscles, is my thought. Does anyone out there have any
suggestions on exercises or wraps to lessen the pain? I really worry about
healing from surgery with my immune system so compromised, but would be
willing to give it a try.
Meanwhile, I'm considering astro turf and plastic plants, or buying a herd of
gopher snakes (yikes!).
Deborah Burgess
RA 3 years, AP 1 year

I wanted to share something with all of you.I have had oral yeast for about a
year now.I had it before I started the ap but it has not been any better
since I started ap.I have tried nystain and diflucan with no success.I'm on
the clinda IV and worry that it might get out of hand.Ethyl suggested that I
rinse with peroxide and water 1/2 and 1/2 solution.I have to tell you that
this rinse lifter the white film right off almost immediately.So, now all I
have to do is continue it and keep the yeast in check.I'm going to start the
olive leaf extract also.i ordered it today so I'll let you all know how that
works for me.Thanks everyone for all the tidbits.
Joanie
PS...by the way.Theres a heated debate going on at the better health
Scleroderma board if anyones looking for some entertainment.Lots of minocin
bashing going on there.I wonder why the ap elicits such strong emotions in
people.

Could someone please send the phone number and name of the store that sells
the Olive Leaf that Ethel suggests? Also, is it capsule or pill? I know
most of you order by the case- but I was wondering how much it is if I just
buy 1 bottle as my stomach may not be able to tolerate it!
Thanks,
Carol*

Ive put Sherrys Arthritis Cookbook in a PDF form that everyone can
download and print with no problems. The old file up wouldnt print for a
lot and ended up pretty unformatted because I didnt have a program could
open it and save in universal format. Today I copied and pasted it and
reformatted it and saved as PDF. I tried to keep close to the original.
The download link is on the supportlinks page.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Today was the day I had my long awaited appointment with the natureopath. After
his name he has B.Sc. (H.K.), D.C., N.D. Since I had never been to one before
I didn't really know what to expect, but the setup is much the same as my gp.
You are given a questionnaire asking about your history, and any chronic
ailments your direct family have that could affect your health. You have to
list all your meds and the reason you are there. I spent over an hour for my
appointment and he explained what he could do for my RA. I had a test for
allergies as I had mentionned the sinus problem. It was a test called an
Eectro-Dermal Screening test and you hold onto a cylinder and he prods your
finger of your other hand with an instrument that looks like a huge pen while
putting different (they looked like slides) into the machine and the needle goes
across the screen. I had no allergies except for dust and not serious. I
asked him about the Progesterone Cream and he said it is good for RA and it also
stimulates the thyroid. But he will wait to put me on it and told me to
continue to take all the current meds I'm on while I am on the treatment he has
suggested. He told me Minocin is an immune suppresant also and I think I read
somewhere it is, but not to the extent that some of the heavy duty stuff I have
been on. Also it can cause problems with the flora in the intestines, which I
already knew. He was very, very surprised my gp (who he knows), as we live in
a small community, prescribed Minocin. See how very traditional our docs are?
Anyway, here is what he wants to do, but I'll start it when I finish vacation
even tho he said there are few if any side effects. Next visit in two months
at which time he said I will see a marked improvement. Then we will discuss RA
diet. He said pork is a no-no for RA'ers. I've eaten my last strip of
bacon. And drink lots of water, fresh veggies and fruits, little sugar, and no
meat with fat.
1. Thymus Formula
2 tablets 3 x day with meals $55.00 for 180 capsules
I would be very interested if anyone has heard of this. He gave me a sheet
explaining it. It is orally administered thymus extract. This particular
formula was developed by Dr. Carson Burgstiner who contracted hep B when he
punctured his finger while operating on an infected patient and became a
carrier. Seven years later and still a carrier, he felt there had to be a
reason for his continued inability to get well and remembered from med school
the Thymus Gland controls the immune system. He went to a health food store
and bought a thymic extract and a vitamine-mineral complex containing Vit B
complex vitamins, Vit E and C, Selenium, Zinc, Beta-Carotene and an amino acid
complex. He began taking these and six weeks later reported he had converted to
a non-active state. The Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia took
samples of his blood and sent it to Mass General at Harvard and to Scvripps
Institute in California and after many studies being done, all had negative test
results for the Hep Virus.
2. EPA/DHA
2 caps 2 x day with meals $18.00 for 90 tablets
3. MSM
1 cap 3 x day $24.00 for 100 capsules
4. PROBION (his writing is atrocious) I think this is the right spelling
2 caps 2 x day on an empty stomach $25.00 for 90 capsules
These are all sold out of his office.
The Thymic Formula is shipped from the U.S. and they seem to have a hard time
getting it so you have to make sure you don't get low in your supplies.
I would sure appreciate any comments or if anyone has first hand experience with
any of these please let me know.
I hope this information is helpful for anyone contemplating visiting a
natureopath.
p.s. The first visit is $65.00 but after that they run from $20. to $30.
Bev

Pierre,
Just wanted you and others to know that you were exactly right about the
abdominal distress eventually stopping with the zithromax. I imagine it is
as you said and the zithro had to clear up the bad bacteria in the gut
first. I went from diarrhea for over a month, to abdominal cramps, to now
no problems at all! I know others have had the same problems and I just
wanted them to know that theirs may clear up too!
Leslie

Hello again:
It definately is cheaper by the case. There is a whole lot of difference
between $30 per bottle vs $18. I know that I need it though and the candida
issue is an important one. No sense taking the antibiotics if you can't
absorb them. So, my next question is: 2 pills 3 x per day is what is
recommended. Is this always or can you reduce the number of pills per day as
the problem lessens??
Thank you,
Carol**

Thought you folks might enjoy this. Hope you're all having a good day.
Paula

"To my shock and amazement, I discovered all of Dr. Brown's patients'
charts were destroyed."
Ethel,
That is unbelievable. Actually, it's pretty scary.
Kari

Hello everyone,
Just as I celebrate winning a two and a half year battle against one of my
employers, I am about to embark in a new one. As you know I came back from
Ottawa after getting IV vitamin and minerals plus all the inhalation
therapy, my doc wanted me to go on a ten week therapy for IV vitamin and
minerals. She sends the prescription to home care which the very next
morning they call me and say they won,t do it. Then my insurance company
says they won't pay for the IV's. Soooo, it doesn't look like I am going to
get them. A three day cost for these vitamins is about 1200.00 and then to
hire a private nurse to come in to give is another 500.00 per three days.
Grand total of 12,000. bucks!!!
Sad thing is I felt great after them. Anyone else out there try this???
Kathryn

Geez louweeezzz...I had to get out of bed to send this one.
Ok, untested case histories physicians call .........."anecdotal"
yes...that's it.....duh\
I need some sleep.
Donna
Barbara, please change my spelling.....I know....loser.....hey, it's been a
long day.
======================

Hi group,
Having some trouble with the new server. Don't think it likes my modem (or
something) as I keep getting booted off. I'm sure I'll have the problems
sorted out shortly - just having to work late every night and I'm running
out of steam.
Chris.

Dear POPpies and list members who are not a part of the POP list but
helped,
Thank you for your prayers and assistance, suggestions, leads and hopes
for my Uncle. The Lord God cured him of his PSP (a form of ALS) a few
days back by giving him a new and perfect body in a new and perfect
home. He shall want no more and I look forward to seeing him again.
I'd forgotten, for a time, to say thank you one and all.
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Tonight I will begin Arava. Wish me luck.
Hugs, Jani

Ladies and Gentlemen,
In a continuing thread entitled "Web page (2)", the issue of where the
web site will be hosted has been rendered moot. That decision has been,
and will continue to be, made unilaterally by Chris Adlard as it should
be. It is not up for debate, though Chris is most gracious in accepting
suggestions from all corners.
This note however, and I assume the ensuing thread, is about
"sponsorship". The effect of "sponsorship" is another matter entirely
from web hosting and may well be worth considering. What is your
objective as an individual on this list; what is the objective of the
originators?
My "personal" objective may not be the same as yours. I have not come to
this list out of motivation to be a "crusader", rather I am propelled by
a selfish motivation: to be healed. It is "my" belief that the objective
of the originators, however, is to make the AP into the mainstream
treatment for Rheumatic diseases, thus honoring one who aided them in
their time of need. That their motive is beneficial to me is great...
for me. Only if I become an asset to their 'cause' does the relationship
develop two-way ties; And only if I somehow bring something fresh to the
mix: a contact, polished verbosity, alternative skills, money, time,
power, only then does the relationship become truly synergistic.
And so, fellow members of this list I ask you, what is our collective,
our corporate motive? Is it:
1. To get Mainstream Western Allopathic medical practitioners to
embrace the antibiotic protocol as the treatment of choice? or
2. Is it to vindicate the work of Dr. Thomas MacPherson-Brown, a man
who refused to play by "their" rules? or
3. Is it to get these same medicos to eschew their traditional
avenues of learning, to turn their backs on the "science" and "art" for
which they have paid so preciously to be trained and to become crusaders
themselves?
Perhaps, for some of you, you lack a clear and present objective. Rather
than being able to choose one of the above, your motive embraces two, or
even three of the above or perhaps even some unstated alternatives.
I submit that were the motive to be that of Dr. Brown, it would be
number one. He would, being human and doubtless tempted, have a desire
to embrace and yet recognize number two as an exercise in pandering to
his own ego, and number three as an impotent gesture. Obviously this is
my opinion and may be far afield, but it does explain the work he did,
they manner in which he published it publicly without peer review, and
the obstacles placed in front of him.
If "ours" is number 1, as I suspect an examination would show, then only
foolishness "requires" a disavowment of all things for profit, i.e.,
drug companies. For indeed, it is the drug companies themselves who
prove to be the most effective enemy of this protocol, advancing new and
more profitable wares almost daily with a force and political strength
that in some cases can actually prevent those more timid (or perhaps a
better term would be those less brave) from daring to step out and use
the AP as there claims of proper treatment are embraced by the legal
profession, advanced in the courts and the legislatures. Were the drug
companies to be turned as an ally, they would "make the protocol
mainstream" by their very acceptance of it, and nearly overnight.
The essence of politics, and make no mistake - medicine is politics in
the most personal sense of the word - is not compromise, nor is it
principal, nor is it graft nor corruption. The essence of politics is
defined maneuverability...
1. You define your goal (acceptance of AP as mainstream med)
2. You assess your enemy: hurdles, objections and tradition
3. You assess your assets: abilities, friends and money
4. You use and maneuver both your assets AND your enemy to
achieve your goal.
You may indeed carry the AP into mainstream medicine as a grass roots
effort. If so, many will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
However, if (and that is a very key word -- IF) it were possible to ally
the pharmaceutical giants behind the AP you would see full-scale
acceptance and implementation of the AP as mainstream medicine within
8-10 months globally. Think about that... 8-10 months globally.
So IF YOU CHOOSE to look with effrontery at the "bad drug companies"
don't forget how many thousands may suffer needlessly due to your
allegiance to the "purity" of your cause, rather than the cause itself.
If the "purity" of your cause takes second seat to the "cause" itself,
you would be wise indeed to culture and promote any relationships which
might lead to backing by the drug companies rather than opposition.
The point is this: Who are the enemies, the diseases or the companies?
I submit, the true enemies are the diseases.
A maneuver which aligns the profiteers into our camp against the enemy
shortens the war and leaves the fewest people mangled and dead.
Remember, as distasteful as the profiteers may be (and indeed many are)
they did not manufacture the disease; They simply found a way to profit
from it. If we can show them how to profit from the AP they will join
the cause.
Of course - if you really HATE them they should all disappear! But then,
the very drugs used in the AP would have to disappear too, wouldn't
they?
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

thanks for inf too many notes

Plese unsubscribe me from your list with immediate effect.
Lorraine

Please immediately unsubscribe me from your list.
Thank you
Lorraine

I heard tonight on my local news of a new RA drug called Remicaide,
being developed and tested in Scotland, and of course it is suppose to be the
best!!! Anyone else hear of it?
Hugs, Jani

This seems a good thread for this quote from a doctor about
Dr Clarks book on Mycoplasmas and arthritis.

You are at extra risk if you have an ulcer caused by H Pylori and are also
taking Nsaids. You might want to check out this article:

Medscape article, you have to register at www.medscape.com to read their
articles, it's free:
CHLAMYDIA MAY BE A CAUSE OF ARTHRITIS
Chlamydia bacteria disseminate to the synovial tissue of female guinea pigs
within 14 days of infection.
http://id.medscape.com/4281.rhtml

Medscape article, you have to register at www.medscape.com to access their
articles but it is for free:
GREPAFLOXACIN POTENT IN VITRO AGAINST MYCOPLASMA, UREAPLASMA STRAINS
The new oral fluoroquinolone grepafloxacin appears to be among the most
active antibiotics in its class against Mycoplasma and Ureaplasma species.
http://id.medscape.com/4256.rhtml

Does anyone know of a good gasrtoenterologist in the Raleigh-Durham area in
North Carolina? I am beginning to lose faith in mine and also he will not
speak to me personally - it's always through his nurse so whenever I have
further questions, she just can't answer them.
Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Melanie.

A couple of us are going to try to meet back on Marks chat
page at 10 central US and 8 west coast time if anyone else
wants to join us.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Found this on a newsgroup, a new website:

Hi dear group:
I have been diagnosed with osteoporosis (sp) and my rheummy wants to
prescribe didronel. Taken for 2 weeks then off for 3 months, then
repeat. Have any of you heard or taken this drug and can help me to
decide to take or not to take. I have been on the AP for RA for l4
months now and doing just so much better. Now this junk comes up too. I
would appreciate any info as the net doesnot have any info on this drug
in pill form only IV. Thanks, and God Bless. Janet-Montana RAl2yrs.

If you ever want to see stats about the visitors to the
group site click on the little blue earth symbol on the
bottom of some pages. Here is a url telling the countries
and domains the visitors are from. It is kinda interesting.
Hmm even government sites are checking it out!
http://z.extreme-dm.com/tracking/reports/ej/nph-geo.cgi?tag=sallyc
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

--

e-mail: nmorri3924@...
1.
June, 1999
Just about six months ago I was diagnosed, with a variant of Familial
Mediterranean Fever. I can remember attacks as young as 8 years of age when
my doctor said I had appendicitis. My mother details attacks from infancy.
As I grew to adulthood, some of my doctors and many of my
family thought that I was a hypochondriac because of the many and varied
symptoms that
I presented. I was told it is all in your head. I was diagnosed previously
and erroneously,
it turns out, with fibromyalgia, (my muscles ached so much at times that my
mouth
watered from the pain, like a popcorn hull between your teeth causes you to
do),
rheumatoid arthritis, chronic recurrent chemical depression, sleep apnea,
sleep disorder
with myoclonus, and Restless Leg Syndrome, colitis, spastic colon, gallbladder
inflammation, appendicitis, possible kidney stones with their concurrent
problems of
vomiting and diarrhea, and so many other things that I cant even remember
them. I had
chronic respiratory problems, sinus infections, allergies and asthma. I had
even looked into
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as a possible cause of my problems. All of these
things didnt
happen at once. I started out with the mild fibromyalgia diagnoses and lived
with that for
years, but the diagnoses kept being added and they grew worse as I grew
older. Sound
like I was a wreck? I was, but I am beginning to improve. It is like a
miracle.
I came across the diagnosis of Familial Mediterranean Fever through my
genealogical
research and that story is told in another paper. Suffice it to say, that I
diagnosed myself,
told my doctor about it, and asked for the medicine colchicine as a trial. My
doctor did not
think that I had FMF, even though I had the ancestry, but he was willing to
give me a trial
prescription. Two hours after I took the first dose, I knew it was going to
work.
At the point when I took the medicine, I could not rise from a seated
position without
pushing or pulling myself up with my hands. My hands, arms, and shoulders in
particular
were in constant pain, both in the muscles and the joints. I could not hold a
cup of coffee
or a glass of water without using two hands, no thumbs to hold them. I could
not raise my
right arm above my head to comb my hair or put on clothes and getting it
behind me to
hook my bra was out of the question.
I moaned and groaned as I came down the steps in the morning, turned sideways
and
taking one step at a time while holding on to the rail with my finger tips
from underneath
the railing. My brain was foggy; I could not think clearly, nor concentrate
for longer than a
few minutes. I had trouble doing simple arithmetic in order to balance a
checkbook. No
anti-inflammatories even touched my pain and 3 800mgs of ibuprofen a day did
not even
dull it. Only high octane narcotics which knocked me out completely worked
and then
when I awoke, I had to deal with the hangover they caused on top of
everything else, so I
stopped taking them and waited to die. MY life was miserable. I was very
unhappy and I
hurt so much at times that I was sure I could not stand it. Stress seemed to
make it more
intolerable. I was forced to take early disablity retirement from a position
that I loved
because I could no longer tell my employer that I would be there everyday and
from the
begiinng to the end of the day.
The medicine colchicine, which I started taking in 0.6mg daily doses, once
daily and now
take twice a day, and which the Merck Manual says can be taken in that
amount 3 times a
day, is made from a plant called the Autumn Crocus which grows in the
Mediterranean. It
is not harmful taken in small doses for a short time even if you do NOT have
the disease. .
It needs to be carefully monitored by twice yearly blood tests by your doctor
and is available only by prescription.
I cannot claim to diagnose or prescribe as I am not a doctor. I am a
genealogist with a
scientific bent. I can tell you my story and tell you what I think, however.
This information is copied from the paper that the National Organization of
Rare Diseases
(NORD) sent to me. I have added a few comments in parentheses with the words
I,my,mine included. If the parenthesis does not include these words then
the parentheses
are NORDs.
FAMILIAL MEDITERRANEAN FEVER
Other names that FMF may be called are:
Armenian Syndrome
Benign Paroxysmal Peritonitis
Familial Paroxysmal Polyserositis
FMF
MEF
Periodic Amyloid Syndrome
Periodic Peritonitis Syndrome
Polyserositis, Recurrent
Reimann Periodic Disease
Reimanns Syndrome
Siegel-Cattan-Mamou Syndrome
Familial Mediterranean Fever (FMF) is a rare (I am not so sure about the
rare.)
inflammatory disease characterized by recurrent attacks of fever and acute
inflammation of
the membranes that line the abdominal cavity (peritonitis) and/or the lungs
(pleuritis); pain
and swelling of the joints (arthritis); and/or in some cases, skin rashes.
In addition, some
affected individuals may experience a serious complication known as
amyloidosis, which is
characterized by abnormal accumulation of a fatty-like substance (amyloid in
various parts
of the body. If amyloid accumulates in the kidneys (renal amyloidosis),
kidney function
may be impaired and life-threatening complications may occur. In most cases,
Familial
Mediterranean Fever is thought to be inherited as an autosomal recessive
genetic trait.
SYMPTOMS
The symptoms of Familial Mediterranean Fever, w