YOU GOTTA READ THIS BOOK !!!

2007-01-31 17:05:09

Hi Y'all ( Thats Texan for Everyone ) :
I just finished reading a book called " Testosterone Syndrome " by
Eugene Shippen, M. D. When I first started reading it I said " Oh my Gawd!! " (
Texan for God ). This is a very large piece of the puzzle. It is the most
relevant informatiom that I have read about Rheumatic disease , since I read The
Road Back. The book also reminded me of a geriatric prepration we used to have
in vet. med. before the FDA came in and said that we, as Vets could no longer
use combined preparations in treating " disease conditions" in our pets. ( And
how long has the FDA been in the "Practice" of Vet. Med !!!! ). The results of
using this preparation on an old , lethargic ,crippled depressed, dog was
astonishing. You could literally reverse most of the symptoms associated with
old age.( And there is'nt much of a placebo effect in animals ) . The key to
this preparations'
success, besides vitamins and minerals, was a BALANCED combination of Estrogen
and Testosterone.
And Ladies, dont let the title fool you. Ever wonder why Rheumatic
diseases occur 75 % In women? And Guys, how come we got it!! Why dont Women have
a lot of heart disease before menopause and the risk increases dramatically
after menopause? Why does Pred cause bone loss? Why do we forget? ( brain fog ).
Did you know that the Heart has more Testosterone receptor sites than any other
muscle in the body? So what happens when the level of testosterone begins to
drop? The answers to these questions and many more ( about Rheumatic Disease )
are found in this book !!!
Because I care for you all a whole lot, please read this book.
Your friend Al R.

Spondylarthritis and Protocols

2007-01-31 14:45:55

As far as I know there are no trials with antibiotics aimed specifically at the
Spondies. Dr Brown treated them all the same. Both the rheumatic.org site and in
the supportgroup pics there is a link to a mans page who was cured of the
Spondy..... by antibiotics.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

re Chat

2007-01-31 02:43:51

How did it go? Did anyone get there. Had to go to Dr. myself, sorry I missed
it! LizG

Chat: Want to put your photos up to link too?

2007-01-30 21:47:05

Here is a free hosting service where you can put your photos online to link to,
so others can view them. This way you dont need a website to link to your stuff.
http://www.photopoint.com/
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

psoriasis and Prozac questions

2007-01-30 21:11:25

I have a couple questions:
A number of months ago I started getting what seemed like a scaly dandruff.
I'd pick on it and flakes would come off. Then a couple weeks ago I got
some of the same stuff on my forehead. I called my daughter who is a hair
stylist and asked her about it. She said it sounded like psoriasis. Sunday
when she cut my hair I showed her the stuff on my hair line and she said it
looks like some psoriasis.
I have read about psoriasis arthritis on the list. I am diagnosed with
rheumatoid arthritis. This stuff showed up after the arthritis. Anyone got
an idea of what is going on?
The other question is about Prozac. I take that but can't find any
information on the web about its connection with onset of arthritis. I can
sort of connect the time line of getting my hip problem with starting
Prozac; I had the hip replaced. Then I went off it and then back on and the
fibromyalgia started. Went back off and then on again--now I got rheumatoid
arthritis.
I want to discuss this with the doctor who prescribes my Prozac but I need
to find the data. Could someone help me with that?
Thanks in advance,
Denisej

Address

2007-01-30 13:45:12

Hi everybody. This is Cooky's hubby :-) We have a new e-mail address.

RE Magnesium,asthma and soft drinks

2007-01-30 00:52:07

For some reason it just popped into my head reading that the one of the
mainstream medical journals (don't remember which) had articles suggesting use
of cola drinks as a mild asthma reliever/preventative for children. Considering
all the info given here on magnesium and CO2 and magnesium and asthma, I will
think twice about using this one on my son. The recommenndation was because of
theophylline-like compoundsin cola nut extract. Wondering if cola syrup would
do? Ever tried it, Sarah? Any info on this one? Taking him to the Dr today as a
3-week cold looks like it may be leading to asthma attack, he's also getting
little patches of exczema on his face like he always does when the asthma is
about to hit. LizG

Jamie

2007-01-29 21:42:37

I would appreciate it if someone could give me Jamie's e-mail address. Thanks.
Linda

Spondylarthritis and Protocols

2007-01-29 19:50:53

Hi Folks,
One of the things that bothers me about the AP is the continual
referencing to RA. It seems like all the research is with RA patients as
well. I'm not complaining about the RA folks getting all the attention,
but I have this scenerio of my giving the protocol and faq to my doctor
and getting a reply that it doesn't apply to me because I'm not RA, blah
blah blah.
Does anyone know of a source that talks about PA that doesn't resort to
the continual RA example but rather talks in terms of all arthropies?
I'd feel much more comfortable with giving my doc that kind of info.
Thanks - Jan

joke

2007-01-29 10:13:42

Sitting on the side of the highway waiting to catch speeding drivers, a
State Police Officer sees a car puttering along at 22 MPH. He thinks to
himself, this driver is just as dangerous as a speeder!" So he turns on
his lights and pulls the driver over. Approaching the car, he notices
that there are five old ladies - two in the front seat and three in
the back - eyes wide and white as ghosts. The driver, obviously
confused, says to him, "Officer, I don't understand, I'm doing exactly
the speed limit! What seems to be the problem?" "Ma'am," the officer
repplies, "You weren't speeding, but you should know that driving slower
than the speed limit can also be a danger to other driver." "Slower
than the speed limit? No sir, I was doing the speed limit
exactly....Twenty-Two miles an hour!" the old woman says a bit
proudly. The State Police officer, trying to contain a chuckle explains
to her that "22" was the route number, not the speed limit. A bit
embarrassed, the woman grinned and thanked the officer for pointing out
her error. "But before I let you go, Ma'am, I have to ask....Is
everyone in this car ok? These women seem awfully shaken and they
haven't muttered a single peep this whole time." the officer asks. "Oh,
they'll be alright in a minute officer. We just got off Route 119."

joke

2007-01-29 04:15:45

A lonely frog telephoned the Psychic Hotline and asked what his future
holds.
His Personal Psychic Advisor tells him: "You are going to meet a
beautiful young girl who will want to know everything about."
The frog is thrilled, "This is great!"
"Will I meet her at a party?" he croaks.
"No," says the psychic, "in biology class."

Chelation Therapy and Alternative Medicine

2007-01-28 17:34:33

I just caught the tail end of a radio show from St. Catharines, Ontairo at 610
AM on the radio dial. Every other Monday they have a show on alternative
medicine from 9 :00 a.m. to 12 noon. . The host is Randy Taylor and the guest
is Norm Abrahms. In promoting the show someone phoned yesterday from Toronto
saying they couldn't find anyone to do chelation therapy. I know it is
mentioned somewhere in our literature. If anyone in Southern Ontario or
vicinity needs someone for chelation therapy Dr. Pertula in the Niagara region
does it. Norm Abrahms phone number is 1-800-777-1328 and you could try it if
you have a question because I believe he answers questions over the phone and
could enlighten you on the chelation therapy also.
Bev

To Norio

2007-01-28 17:07:21

Hi Norio, and welcome. Can you print out the Physician's Protocol from the
rheumatic.org website, and the Frequently Asked Questions sections. These may
help in your search for a Dr. Any Dr. who will give the AP a try will do if you
can't find one experienced in it. There are people here who can help guide you
through it. Tx is abbreviation for "treatments"; MWF for Monday, Wednesday,
Friday, the regimen usually recommended for taking the antiobiotics. Hope this
helps and best of luck. LizG

RE SARAH When to stop antibiotics.

2007-01-28 07:24:13

In a message dated 3/10/99 8:17:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, sasc@...
writes:
<< I was under the impression that most people had to take them all their
life. How
does one judge if you can stop them or not? I'm sure afraid to try stopping
them!
According to Dr Franco, a person should be asymptomatic and with normal blood
results and then he continues the AP for one more year.
Just saw him and I asked him the same question!
LOL
Liz

When to stop antibiotics.

2007-01-28 04:30:51

I was under the impression that most people had to take them all their life. How
does one judge if you can stop them or not? I'm sure afraid to try stopping
them!
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Mule story

2007-01-27 22:58:45

And I hope the mule ripped the farmers A-- off when he got out!!
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

RE Ginger---a ? for Ray

2007-01-27 19:52:12

Ray, I have been told ginger is good for RA because it "eats up immune
complexes"--would that be due to the proteolytic enzymes, do you know? Also was
told it would be good for protecting my stomach from nsaids in light of my not
being able to take misoprostol, thanks for the data to back this up. LizG

Hello from Japan

2007-01-27 15:45:01

Hi everyone,
I'm new here and have been RA for 12 years. I found antibiotic treatment
and very interested in it. Have read book "The New Arthritis Breakthrough" and
visited web sites of roadback and rheumatology.org. And I know that it will
be quite tough work to find AP doctor here in Japan. Very disappointed to
know there are no Japanese doctor in the doctor's list from The Arthritis Trust
of America. Would you mind giving me hint or advice to find AP doctor here.
I have an another question. What do the abbreviation "tx" and "MWF" mean?
Regards,
Norio
--
Norio Ohki Nagoya Japan
http://www.okmicro.co.jp/norio/

ARTICLE ON THE HERB GINGER

2007-01-27 03:30:49

note:this is from html source

RE Jan Perdue" letter about inet chgs the sequel

2007-01-26 21:05:42

Dear Jan and everyone, Please Jan, know that when I wrote that letter yesterday
about this being a hoax I didn't mean to cast any stones at you--I was in the
process of being stoned myself, people all over the net were telling me how
naive I was to believe this, one jerk reported me to my ISP for posting it. I
was extremely upset and wanted to prevent anyone else from going through the
same thing I was going through. I am told to look at the FCC website to see
that it is a hoax. I've got better things to do with my time, and besides, I'd
already typed my congressman a nice letter which I mailed anyway <LOL
To those who gave me their loving support while I was in the middle of this,
bless you. Over in the ng where it happened, people are lining up to give the
guy hell that reported me, and some that are either very smart or chicken are
sending me letters about it <LOL
tush another time, and this guy will either wake up or get chased away. Only
one other person jumped in to attack me and I replied to all of them to go to
dejanews and read all my past posts before they started attacking me. Seeing
how wordy I am that ought to keep them busy for a loooong time <LOL

prednisone

2007-01-26 19:23:10

Group,
Speaking of prednisone......I went to my doctor yesterday for my
check-up and again my blood pressure was very high. I asked her about
substituting Cortef or something else for prednisone and she said they
all had the same side affects. If you are suffering from high blood
pressure and you take Naproxyn, that contains sulfa which is also salt.
She had me quit taking that and gave me sample of Celebrex. I don't
know what else to do for my high blood pressure. It's been 180/102 and
this time it was 190/102. I felt better this time when I went. The
last time it felt like my heart was trying to jump out of my body! I
thought for sure it would be back to normal but it wasn't.
jan perdue

Hydrocortisone-Hysone vs Prednisolone

2007-01-26 13:23:56

Hi all,
Well I tried to switch from prednisolone to Hysone and need to ask if anyone
suffering RA has done this successfully?
I believe that the conversion rate is 4 Hysone to 1 Prednisolone
which I figured seeing as I was taking 7. mg of Pred
that I would take 28 of Hysone
Well I started out on Sunday with 10mg with Breakfast,
10mg with lunch , 4mg with tea and 4 mg going to bed.
Well Sunday was fine, Monday was ok, soreness started through the night Monday
and then blew up all day Tuesday and all last night so this morning I went back
to the Prednisolone and thought I would check back with the group for any
experiences.
I take 1000 of Naprosyn daily, along with Cod Liver Oil and Losec for ulcers and
25mg Endep for sleep and depression.
Today and yesterday I had to add about 4 panadol and that only made it bearable.
My concern is, if Hysone is less side effects is it 4 times or more less side
effects ?
Any success stories please?
Julie ra Jan 97 ap May 98
Townsville Australia
jamulder@...
http://www.ultra.net.au/~jamulder/

BobH--some ideas

2007-01-26 02:15:25

The fact that your "remission" is complete may mean that you have been cured.
As I recall, Dr Brown reported curing people in two years. Why borrow worry.
With pancreatitis you have enough to concern you right now, and extra stress
will only serve to hasten you to the relapse that you fear. This is just my
humble opinion. As I understand, sometimes people Dr. Brown treated had to go
back on a short course of antibiotics a few years later. Don't know if the
pancreatitis will preclude that , do you? it possible that pancreatitis can be
cured and then you can take antiobiotics later if needed, find out, or if you
already know please let us know, I'm hoping for your sake that your wording "at
the present time" means that this will be possible if you need it. Try to put
all these concerns aside for now and focus on the situation at hand. You found
the AP. It worked for you. Your liver and eyes were not destroyed as they may
have been with more toxic treatments, and there is always the hope that other
cures based on the fundamental concepts the AP is based on will be developed in
the future. There are also symptom controllers that may tide you through until
or of you are able to take antiobiotics. Stick to the dietary recommendations
to preserve the health you have so far achieved. Add a generous dose of hope,
faith, optimism and joy to your life. Banish fear, it will only bring you down
I know you have just tossed a big blast of hope to me hearing of your
success--Catch! Here it comes back at you. Hope this helps. LizG

pancreatitis

2007-01-25 21:52:33

I have a question... I have been on the antibiotic therapy for approximately two
years during that time period I was taking 200 milligrams of minosin every other
day and a IV (900 milligrams) of clindmysin once a week. During this therapy I
was able to obtain a complete remission of my disease which I have had for 17
years. Everything was going great until I developed pancreatitis. My physician
informed me that it was critical that I no longer take the antibiotics. At the
present time, I am not taking any antibiotics and just waiting for myself to hit
the solid brick wall going 60 miles per hour. Now to my question. Does anyone
have any suggestions?
Bob Hunsaker

hello from mexico

2007-01-25 16:38:29

HELLO EVERYONE OUT THERE IN HERE EVERYTHING IS O.K. I HOPE MY BROTHER`S BACK
THIS WEEKEND HE IS ALMOST STANDING UP,THE MD TOLD US THAT`S GREAT NEWS SO MAYBE
WE COULD HAVE IT THE NEXT DAYS.
MARK: COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS THE CHAT ROOM????WHAT DO YOU DO
THERE,EVERYTHING PLEASE,I WOULD LIKE TO TRY JUST LET ME KNOW WHAT IS IT AND WHAT
DO I HAVE TO DO.IN HERE IS 11:45PM TO YOU GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE TIME.THANKS
AND HAVE A NICE NIGHT EVERYONE.HUGS FROM HERE ROCIO

Shelf-life of DMSO ??

2007-01-25 12:33:43

Ok , call me the 'Classis Pack-Rat' (yes I have all kinds of stuff)
Can anyone tell me what the shelf-life of DMSO might be. My aunt gave me
some about 10 years ago, but myocrysine(gold shots) was working well for me
at the time.
I was always going to dump it in the alley or somewhere, but for saftey
reasons, wasn't quite sure what to do with it. Also at the time there was a
football player (don't recall his name) that claimed, he came down with Lou
Garrick's disease after using it. This was an unverified rumour, but I
didn't chance it. if I ever get another flare like I had 2 weeks back, I
might just try it. However the shelf-life concerns me.
Janine Osberg

(no subject)

2007-01-25 05:14:02

This story interested me because getting antibiotics from a feed store was
one of the possibilities I considered.
Denisej
RA 6/7/98 AP 11/4/98
Tuesday March 9 7:04 PM ET
US Groups Urge Ban On 7 Antibiotics From Livestock

Lisbeths email

2007-01-25 00:52:46

Lisbeth has unsubscribed but she wanted me to give everyone her email so you can
write her if you want. Its lisbeth@...
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

medical dictionary

2007-01-24 13:36:35

For a good medical dictionary, look here:
http://www.graylab.ac.uk/omd/index.html
Mark
RA 4/98 A/P 7/98
Mino (100mg/2x/daily)
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA Chat: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
mholmes@... ICQ # 18123139

NEW ARTHRITIS TREATMENTS

2007-01-24 13:31:52

<A HREF="http://go.msn.com/cml/10081.asp?target=http://www.mayohealth.org/cgi-
bin/util/coo/putc.cgi%3Furl%3D/mayo/9903/htm/arthriti.htm%26cnt%3Dms"
Arthritis Treatments - Promising trends</A
http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9903/htm/arthriti.htm

Short story with lesson

2007-01-24 02:52:30

I found that this spoke to me about my attitudes - hope you enjoy (and
haven't read).
Hugs,
janet in tulsa
A parable is told of a farmer who owned an old mule. The mule fell into
the farmer's well. The farmer heard the mule 'braying' - or - whatever
mules do when they fall into wells. After carefully assessing the
situation, the farmer sympathized with the mule, but decided that neither
the mule nor the well was worth the trouble of saving. Instead, he called
his neighbors together and told them what had happened...and enlisted them
to help haul dirt to bury the old mule in the well and put him out of his
misery.
Initially, the old mule was hysterical! But as the farmer and his
neighbors continued shoveling and the dirt hit his back...a thought struck
him. It suddenly dawned on him that every time a shovel load of dirt
landed on his back...HE SHOULD SHAKE IT OFF AND STEP UP! This he did, blow
after blow. "Shake it off and step up...shake it off and step up...shake
it off and step up!" he repeated to encourage himself. No matter how
painful the blows, or distressing the situation seemed the old mule fought
"panic" and just kept right on SHAKING IT OFF AND STEPPING UP!
You're right! It wasn't long before the old mule, battered and
exhausted, STEPPED TRIUMPHANTLY OVER THE WALL OF THAT WELL! What seemed
like would bury him, actually blessed him...all because of the manner in
which he handled his adversity.
THAT'S LIFE! If we face our problems and respond to them positively,
and refuse to give in to panic, bitterness, or self-pity...THE ADVERSITIES
THAT COME ALONG TO BURY US USUALLY HAVE WITHIN THEM THE POTENTIAL TO
BENEFIT AND BLESS US!
Remember that FORGIVENESS-FAITH-PRAYER-PRAISE and HOPE...all are
excellent ways to "SHAKE IT OFF AND STEP UP" out of the wells in which we
find ourselves!

Ray--rewebsite for moms w/arth

2007-01-23 22:51:15

Ray cool one, I have re ad the guestbook here--go read it if you want a real
good cry, guys. And a mailing list too! Wonder if there's any more room in this
mailbox of mine? Is the mailing list related, do you have to read Norsk to be
on it? LizG

Dental Suggestions

2007-01-23 21:11:20

Hi Folks! Geoff Crenshaw here.
With all of this talk about root canals it figures that my visit to the
Dentist Friday for a crown turned into 4 hours of torture which ended
with a choice of a root canal (my DDS doesn't like them) or an implant.
I'd never heard of that, but he recommended it - they don't fail, can't
get infected, can't get decay and are all around superior to *any* other
dental treatment. Works like this...
They extract the involved tooth and after a thorough disinfection of the
area, the surgeon drapes the jaw with biological Gore-Tex (a piece of
1/2" square collagen material). The Gore-Tex prevents the soft tissue
from invading the hole while new bone grows into it making the jaw now
solid. After several months, the surgeon opens the soft tissue again,
drills a small hole into the jaw and implants a titanium shaft. Bone
actually integrates with titanium making the site now solid. The site is
again closed and several more weeks pass while the bone integrates the
titanium. Next the surgeon places a crown head prep on the shaft and a
man-made crown is affixed of whatever material the patient chooses
(gold, plastic, etc.)
This procedure is guaranteed for life. Crowns are normally gty'd for 5
yrs, same for root canals, etc. (The insurance co's req. the dentists to
gty the work)
This is an incredible process and far superior to any other methodology
for root canals, bridges, partials and dentures. It can be done for one
tooth, or a full set.
The downside?
It costs an arm and a leg and is not covered by insurance.
If you can afford it (about $1400 for a 'regular' tooth - $3400 for
major 3-root molars requiring the "guided bone regeneration") this is
the way to go and avoids all problems associated with bacterial
infections from root canals, etc.
HTH anyone with this sort of problem.
Oh - one other thing - they put you on heavy antibiotics for about 2
weeks. In may case, since I couldn't handle cillins - it was Doxy. ;)
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Update

2007-01-23 11:06:46

Hi Folks! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Thought an update on condition might be appropo...
The weight loss problem has resolved - am now at 195-198 (6'4M) and
stable regardless of outside influences. This has been and is a major
improvement. Energy levels remain constant at around 8 out of 10 with
morning surges into 9-10 area. That is a very odd thing considering the
classic RA problems usually present in the AM. For me now, AM's are
great - go out and wash the cars, weed, etc. Wrist, hand and finger
involvements have all improved to a point that I am able (occassionally)
to carry 40# bags of rock salt (potassium chloride). Lifting them with
my shot wrists was a major problem - now I can lift them and get them up
to my arm where I can carry them easily. This is a big improvement too
as you can imagine. (We use the salt in a water softener.) Mental state
is greatly improved - general attitude and outlook are positive, brain
fog lessening. Still able to walk barefooted - now so common I hope I am
never reminded of how badly it hurt before. Good ROM in shoulders,
knees, hips. Still doing 4 RA SPES daily. Rheumy also started on a
diuretic w/Potassium Chloride to try and reduce edema surrounding
Baker's Cysts which have yet to resolve. May be left with no choice on
those except cortisone injections. No NSAIDs or other Rx meds.
Interesting note (next post) on dental work...
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Package for doctors

2007-01-23 08:13:59

Dear group,
The best items to take to your doctors are the Physicians' Protocol at
www.rheumatic.org/protocol.htm - written by Dr. Joseph Mercola for other
doctors. Dr. Mercola has treated well over a thousand people with the
antibiotic protocol.
Also our FAQ at www.rheumatic.org/faq.htm, written by Dr. Millie Coker-Vann
with Ethel - Dr. Coker-Vann was Dr. Brown's research assistant at the
time of his death in 1989. She now is the director of the Mycoplasma
Research Institute.
Chris.

A WEB SITE FOR MOTHERS WITH RHEUMATIC DISEASE

2007-01-23 01:49:38

While the Center for mothers with rheumatic disease web site is small, it
contains very helpful information. To see this site based in Norway go to the
following URL. In addition to this, Kathy Kamppi, bck0903@..., has started
a mailing list for moms with arthritis. It is located at www.onelist.com under
ARTHRIMOMS.

AP WORKS!

2007-01-22 17:54:05

I have had RA since December of '96. I have been AP since October of
'97. Started with MWF 200mgs. but now take 200mgs. Daily. In October of
'97 my ESR (sed rate) was 68. In June of '98 it was 88. As of yesterday
it is 34!!!! I know minocycline is working. I have not increased (in
fact i have decreased) all of my meds (Prednisone and NSAIDS). I hope
that 6 months from now I am telling you my ESR is less than 20!!

{rheumatic} Advice needed on CRP and AP

2007-01-22 12:31:21

Dear Susa:
9 March 99
I am a Medical Technologist & have done many CRP tests but do not interpret
these tests for anyone else. For myself, the books say that it is C
Reactive Protein. Normal values are from zero to 0.9 Values above that
indicate an imflammatory condition of a degree corresponding to the actual
value of the test.
In March of 98 I developed active RA & in May started the AP with
minocycline. At that time my CRP was 9.2. My Rheumy wanted to use
methatrexate, which is very hard on the liver & having had Hepatitis I
declined & requested minocycline which he consented to reluctantly. I did
my homework before I went to see him by getting on the net & the Roadback
Foundation & also Dr. Mercola.
When I saw the Rheumy in December the CRP was 1.3, nearly normal. On
January 20, 99 I had serious back (spinal) surgery & just after surgery my
CRP was 17.9 which I attributed to surgical shock. On Monday of this week
I took another CRP and the result was again 1.3.
My sed rate (ESR) which is also an indication of inflammation for the most
part has been normal. I attribute this to various supplements which I take,
including Bromelain, Boswellia, Ginger & Curcumin, which helps to reduce
the cause of inflammation. However, I know of people with apparent mild RA
who do not show elevated CRP values.
Best wishes,
Henrietta
--
Happy Fins, Inc.
3613 Nebraska,
Amarillo, TX 79109
806-353-3662; FAX 806-351-2303

Chat?

2007-01-22 10:37:43

Anyone want to chat around 7 p.m. Eastern? That's 4 p.m. West Coast and 5 p.m.
Mountain Time and I think that's around 9 a.m. in Australia. I'll post other
times as well in the future, but thought this might be a start. Chat room web
site is listed below. See you there!
RA 4/98 A/P 7/98
Mino (100mg/2x/daily)
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA Chat: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
mholmes@... ICQ # 18123139

Font size

2007-01-21 17:27:20

I have Netscape. The font of the sender varies in my email. I have
to put my face up to the screen in order to read some messages. I've
decided to just delete. My font is set but I have no idea how anyone
else sees it other than no one has said it is difficult to read. I
don't like missing any postings but if I need to change font size, I
would be going back and forth doing this.:-(
Denise
NC

RA/Dr.Siegel replies/DMSO

2007-01-21 12:25:47

I recently posed a few questions to Dr. Siegel regarding my recent blood tests
and x-rays. I also asked him a question about MSM, but I think because of what
Joe is doing with DMSO, he is confusing the two as they are different although
similar chemically. My understanding is that MSM is a benign substance. I
thought I had explained that in my note but sometimes everyone doesn't read as
carefully as you would like them to read. I've written him a followup pointing
him towards further info on the web about MSM and we shall see what that reply
brings.
Dr. Siegel noticed my chat room signature and found that to be interesting, so
he indicated that I could post his response to me to the group, so I am. (I've
deleted a few unimportant items). Unfortunately, my x-rays taken in February
indicate some small erosions of bone (which despite him telling me not to panic,
sort of scares the hell out of me). I have written to him asking him to explain
those in greater detail. I wonder if these happened in the early stages of
taking mino - since my labs are trending downwards, I am hoping that means less
pressure of synovial fluid on cartilage and bone and thus hopefully a
discontinuation of this erosion. You will note that if my hands keep flaring,
that he wants me to take something else in addition. I've asked him what that
might be in my followup (anyone want to guess? :))
So here's my note and his answers (sorry for the length - he quotes some
lengthy articles on DMSO - note that he does include a Russian study which
exhibited the following:
("It was found that DMSO and dimethyl sulfone lessen the destructive changes in
the joints, while DMSO also inhibits the manifestation of immune disorders, i.
e. produces a"basal" effect on the course of spontaneous chronic arthritis in
experimental animals. " Dr. Siegel states that those tests have not been
repeated elsewhere. Wonder why that is?)
Sorry - his answers follow!
Dear Mr Holmes
Thanks for your notes. Another patient last week asked me
about DMSO and I did some reading on the subject. See the articles appended
to my note . DMSO applied topically appears to have pain releiving
properties, somwehat like Flex-all or Zostrix, but the evidence for actual
immunomodulating properties is scarce. The only studies on oral use are from
Russia in the 1980's and have not been repeated elsewhere. As for systemic
use note the study on rats in which there was significant toxicity. The
medically accepted use of DMSO is based on its properties as powerful
solvent that can dissolve toxic compounds such as bladder irritants and
amyloid. IT IS ALSO USED AS A PRESERVATIVE IN BONE MARORW FOR INFUSIONS INTO
CANCER PATIENTS.
I encourage you to look through the NIH pubmed database where I
found these articles. Searching is pretty straightforward and the abstracts
are often less technical than the article. The site is
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/medline.html.
We reviewed your X rays at our clinical conference, and in
comparison to August there is definite evidence of small erosions in the
metacarpal bones. I will forward this information to Dr Kempf. I do not
think this is anything to panic about but if you still are having frequent
flares and inadequitely controlled symptoms in your hands it may be time to
start thinking about adding another agent to your therapy.
Answers to your other questions are in capital letters (see below)
Hope the winter is not too severe in the mountains - it's snowing
like crazy at the NIH right now!
Richard
Richard M. Siegel M.D., Ph.D.
Fellow, ARB NIAMS
NIH Bldg 10 Rm 11N311
Bethesda MD 20892
301-496-6753
FAX 301-480-7352
HERE ARE SOME REFERENCES
Rev Clin Basic Pharm 1985 Jan-Jun;5(1-2):1-33 Medical use of dimethyl sulfoxide
(DMSO).Swanson BNDMSO is a clear odorless liquid, inexpensively produced as a
by-product of
the paper industry. It is widely available in the USAas a solvent but its
medical use is currently restricted by the FDA to the
palliative treatment of interstitial cystitis and to certainexperimental
applications. Cutaneous manifestations of scleroderma appear to
resolve (albeit equivocally) following topicalapplications of high
concentrations of DMSO. A limited number of small
clinical trials indicate that intravenous DMSO may be ofbenefit in the treatment
of amyloidosis, possibly by mobilizing amyloid
deposits out of tissues into urine. Dermal application ofDMSO seems to provide
rapid, temporary, relief of pain in patients with
arthritis and connective tissue injuries. However, claimsfor antiinflammatory
effects or acceleration of healing are currently
unwarranted. There is no evidence that DMSO can alterprogression of degenerative
joint disease, and, for this reason, DMSO may be
considered for palliative treatment only and not tothe exclusion of standard
antiinflammatory agents. The safety of DMSO in
combination with other drugs has not been established;neurotoxic interactions
with sulindac have been reported. In experimental
animals, intravenous DMSO is as effective as mannitoland dexamethasone in
reversing cerebral edema and intracranial hypertension.
An initial clinical trial in 11 patients tends tosupport this latter
application. DMSO enhances diffusion of other chemicals
through the skin, and, for this reason, mixtures ofidoxuridine and DMSO are used
for topical treatment of herpes zoster in the
UK. Adverse reactions to DMSO are common, butare usually minor and related to
the concentration of DMSO in the medication
solution. Consequently, the most frequent sideeffects, such as skin rash and
pruritis after dermal application,
intravascular hemolysis after intravenous infusion andgastrointestinal
discomfort after oral administration, can be avoided in
large part by employing more dilute solutions. Mostclinical trials of DMSO have
not incorporated the components of experimental
design necessary for objective, statistical evaluationof efficacy. Randomized
comparisons between DMSO, placebo and known active
treatments were rarely completed. Finalapproval of topical DMSO for treatment of
rheumatic diseases in particular
will require a multi-center, randomized comparisonbetween high and low
concentrations of DMSO and an orally-active,
nonsteroidal antiinflammatory agent. [Dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO) gel in treatment
of acute tendopathies. A
multicenter,placebo-controlled, randomized study].[Article in German] Kneer W,
Kuhnau S, Bias P, Haag RFOrthopadische Gemeinschaftspraxis, Stockach. METHOD: In
a placebo-controlled double-blind study, 157 patients with acute
tenopathies (periarthropathia humeroscapularis orlateral epicondylitis) were
randomized to treatment with either DMSO gel 10%
applied three times a day (n = 77) or the gelexcipient (n = 80). The treatment
phase was 14 days long and included four
examinations. Treatment was started within 72 hoursafter the onset of the acute
symptoms. RESULTS: Pain of movement under
loading and the mobility of the joints weresignificantly improved after,
respectively, 3 and 7 days treatment with DMSO,
as compared with placebo. After 14 days onDMSO, a further improvement was
observed, and 44% of the patients were
pain-free (placebo 9%). In both groups, the substancewas well or very well
tolerated by more than 90% of the patients. No relevant
changes in laboratory results or severe undesiredevents occurred under
treatment. Undesired events were seen in 8 patients
receiving DMSO treatment, and in 3 patients in theplacebo group. CONCLUSION: The
results of this study confirm that Rheumabene
(10% DMSO gel) is suitable for topical use inthe treatment of acute tenopathy,
producing clinically relevant results with
little risk to the patient.
Analysis of dimethyl sulfoxide immunosuppression in the rat model of
collagen II
autoimmune arthritis: an effect dependent upon intraperitoneal
administration and
associated with toxicity.
Watson WC, Pucevich CL, Cremer MA, Pinals RS, Townes AS
The effect of the route of administration of dimethyl sulfoxide on humoral
immunity and arthritis was evaluated in the rat model of
collagen II autoimmune arthritis. Intraperitoneal administration of 5
g/kg/day (days 0-12) reduced serum anti-collagen II IgG levels,
delayed the onset of arthritis, but induced sterile peritonitis in all of
the treated animals. The same dose given subcutaneously did not
alter humoral or clinical parameters. Lower intraperitoneal doses (0.04 and
0.25 g/kg/day), although non-toxic, were similarly
ineffective. Subcutaneous (5 g/kg/day) or topical treatment (both hindpaws
dipped twice daily into 70% dimethyl sulfoxide) of
established disease (days 16-27) produced a mild anti-inflammatory effect
without any immunosuppression. We suggest that the
apparent suppression of autoimmunity by dimethyl sulfoxide is dependent upon
intraperitoneal administration and a toxic dose of the
agent.
Patol Fiziol Eksp Ter 1991 Mar-Apr;(2):37-9 [Effect of dimethyl sulfoxide and
dimethyl sulfone on a destructive process
in thejoints of mice with spontaneous arthritis].[Article in Russian] Murav'ev
IuV, Venikova MS, Pleskovskaia GN, Riazantseva TA, Sigidin IaAThe authors used
the blind method for evaluation of the morphological
picture of the joints and the level of circulating immunecomplexes to study the
effect of prolonged oral administration of dimethyl
sulfoxide (DMSO) and its main metabolite dimethylsulfone on the development of
spontaneous arthritis in 36 Mrl/Mn/lnr female
mice. It was found that DMSO and dimethyl sulfonelessen the destructive changes
in the joints, while DMSO also inhibits the
manifestation of immune disorders, i. e. produces a"basal" effect on the course
of spontaneous chronic arthritis in experimental
animals.

Jan Perdue's letter about internet access

2007-01-21 06:38:39

I have been informed that this is a hoax, I have already gotten one complaint to
my ISP about this, keeping my fingers crossed. Don't pass this one along!
Hoping others will recognize my ignorance and take pity on me! Sarah, now I can
hear you saying "I told you so!" and you were right! But I still don't see how
this one could be interpreted as advertising. LizG

RA factor level?

2007-01-21 06:06:18

I have 2 more questions.....
1. what is a good RA level?
2. should someone with RA take iron supplements? If not what can I take
to increase my iron? (besides liver)
thanks a lot
Gail RA 2 yrs AP 10 months

Doctor's Packet

2007-01-20 23:06:06

Hello,
Someone asked about a doctor's information packet...Well there IS one. The
Road Back Foundation has put one together that includes-protocol for using
antibiotics, medical journal articles supporting this approach, past
Physicians Pages, patient case histories, and more.
This can be found at http://roadback.org/matavail.html
I have personnally attained this packet and it's well worth the canadian
exchange!
Cruise the rest of the site, as it's very informative.
Best to all,
Janine Osberg (no more wheelchair since July '98) avoided knee
replacements!
RA-15&1/2 years, AP-2-years!!

Magnesium vs Soda Pop

2007-01-20 14:46:28

Hi Folks! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Say, I don't know how many of you still drink *any* form of carbonated
beverages, be they "diet" or not. But with all this commentary about
magnesium of late there are afew things you should beware of - well one
actually:
CO2 binds with, modifies and removes magnesium
from the body, as well as robbing stores from
bone.
That's it in a nutshell. Carbonated *ANYTHING* steals magnesium from all
available sources and TONS of it at that. If you are drinking *any*
carbonated drinks be they soda, root beer or sparkling water, you nede
to understand that it will be very nearly impossible to ingest enough
magnesium in a normal, even a healthy, diet to compensate for the
magnesium loss of ONE CAN OF SODA DAILY. It *is* virtually impossible to
compensate for more than that.
HTH and remember - the job of the soft drink manufacturers is to
displace water in the stomach with their product. YOUR job is to be
smart enough to stay healthy.
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

Herbs

2007-01-20 12:13:27

Hello Everyone! Geoff Crenshaw here.
Most of us are aware, and concerned about, the FDA's intrusion into OTC
herbals. We've been all over the map about increasing prices, decreasing
availability, etc. And usually the companies who make these little
goodies have been on that same side.
Seems that may be changing.
MSNBC in an article related to the one posted earlier to the group says,
"A PRESCRIPTION FOR HERBS?
The companies also plan to seek Food and Drug
Administration approval to sell the most effective herbs as
prescription drugs, so doctors wary of the largely
unregulated supplements could choose, for a little higher
price, a fully tested medicine version."
For the full text go to: http://www.msnbc.com/news/204488.asp#BODY
The good news is that of this sort of thing *does* fly, these herbals
will then be covered by insurance (translated I pay for what you take
and the fellow who manages the whole things makes money).
The bad news is that the price will go up, those of us who use the meds
OTC will no longer be able to get them and those of us without insurance
will once again get treated to the pointy end of a mechanical obect used
for fastening.
And life goes on...
--
Regards,
Geoff Crenshaw, ACC

mattresses

2007-01-20 08:02:30

For arthritis sufferers, a good night's sleep is important, as is the position
we sleep in and the position our beds put us in. Does anyone have any
experience with the individual pocket coil mattresses?
Linda

strong meds and one surgeon

2007-01-19 18:25:10

When we went to buy a new mattress, the saleslady and I started talking because
she, too, has RA. I found it very interesting--but not really surprising--that
her husband, who was an orthopedic surgeon, would not let her take the strong
DMARDS etc. And today, she does not have much damage to her joints. I still
believe that much of my permanent damage occured rapidly while I was on
methotrexate. (I realize it seems to help some people, but it certainly did me
harm in the long term.)
Linda

PLEASE,PLEASE STOP SUBSCRIPTION

2007-01-19 18:02:33

CANCEL THIS SUBSCRIPTION PLEASE ... THANK YOU .
pawn@...

OOPS! Didn't attach!

2007-01-19 16:27:24

HI Mike,
OOPS! See if this attaches.

Drs. in Michigan

2007-01-19 03:47:40

Is there anyone out there, participating in this group, that is doing AP with a
Dr. in Michigan? Skipper Sue

mag and potassium

2007-01-18 21:21:51

Bev, just start taking magnesium and potassium. Too much magnesium and youll get
the runs. You will know! I get the Mortons Lite salt that is half potassium.
Bananas and kidney beans also have a lot of potassium. Adelle Davis's books
claimed that many heart attacks were caused by lack of these minerals
accompanied with caffiene and smoking.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Bev--re palpitations

2007-01-18 20:04:35

Bev, I think it is TSH you want to get checked, also check all your meds for
possible side effects on this. Mitral valve prolapse is a conditio of the heart
valve where it "prolapses" back into the cavity after opening and leaks a little
in doing so. I believe it is common in women in general, and not sure but have
been told it is not a big concern unless complicated by other factors. Blood
electrolytes can be checked with a blood chemistry panel which includes the
specific ones you are looking for, a chem12 or chem20 I think, ask your doc when
you talk to him. Tell the nurse you are concerned because of history of thyroid
problems, whatever, anything you can think up! Don't be put off! Give 'em hell
until they take you seriously! We all have had experience with being put off by
busy docs and nurses, and the ensuing misery from undiagnosed or misdiagnosed
problems! Sorrry for mouthing off, you weren't even asking me, but this is a
pet peeve of mine....and thyroid problems left untreated can lead to cardiac
complicatons I am told. I'm going to collar my doc about thyroid tests next time
I go in. Look over in alt.support.arthritis under "Graves' Disease for some of
the responses I have gotten if you're curious. LizG

FAQ

2007-01-18 08:48:23

FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions and you will find FAQ pages all over
the net.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Joe and Dr. Siegel

2007-01-18 08:46:53

In response to Joe's note about our fellow doc at the NIH, I think the group
should keep in mind that this is a doctor who works mostly in the lab and I am
sure believes strongly in the "scientific method". The more "science" behind
our efforts the more beneficial, I am sure. Whereas he might read the anecdotal
stuff, he will probably tend to be skeptical and it might even put him off. (as
in Joe's description of his DMSO experiment).
Joe is right in saying this doc is a very nice guy and seems to truly care. He
will spend a lot of time with you and that is one thing I must say about the NIH
- I never felt anyone was in a rush there - they were all very patient and
wanted to learn as much about you as possible. Dr. Siegel is worried about his
patients - he doesn't want to see them end up in wheelchairs or with joint
replacements if possible. He's seen some bad cases, so it is understandable
that he may push us towards methotrexate, but as Joe says he has some "tunnel"
vision on this, probably due to the lack of time to spend studying other forms
of treatment. That is where we come in and apparently Dr. Siegel thinks Joe is
quite the authority on minocycline so this is good news!
Dr. Siegel is aware of Dr. O'Dell's study, but Dr. O'Dell emphasized the
inhibition of enzymes, giving only a passing mention to the fact that it might
have anti-infectious potential as well. So some more science is needed. It
won't be easy - not a whole lot of money has been used for funding this approach
to treating RA as Ethel and all the rest of you guys know so well, so our
resources might be somewhat limited when it comes to sending him pure science.
We could send him Dr. Scammell's latest book, but would he read it? And would
he be put off with all the anecdotal stories?
Nothing against diet, drinking lot of water, etc.,etc., but unless you have
some good scientific studies on that, I have trouble believing he will buy into
that. But I won't say he wouldn't read it. The last time I was there , he had
a Chinese student come in and observe me as well. The Chinese student was into
herbs and was interested in what I was taking and Dr. Siegel was listening. It
was Dr. Siegel's wish that there would be a lot more funding for herbal research
so that the NIH could study it as well , particularly in view of the fact that
the general public is spending billions on herbal products. The nice thing
about the NIH doctors is that they are trying to find answers, so they should be
openminded - unlike so many docs out in the field whose job it is to treat, not
to find the cure. The doc in the field just wants you to stop suffering and go
away happy with the job he has done for you (ah, the skeptic in me arises
again!)
Mark
RA 4/98 A/P 7/98
Mino (100mg/2x/daily)
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA Chat: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
mholmes@... ICQ # 18123139

Knee replacement

2007-01-18 05:22:38

They may not think it feasable for her age because these surgeries wear you down
pretty bad and you have to really do exersizes to get the limb working again.
Certainly with the knee I would recommend not having the general anesthetic as
that makes recovery harder. Also too the osteoporosis would be a factor if she
has it. It should really be her decision to make. I saw on news the other day
that a famous judge died of complications from hip surgery. He was I believe 91
or 92. I really wondered what exactly were the complications but they didnt say.
One of the most common ones, Sepsis, is usually do to unsterile conditions or
IV's, and a very common occurance in the USA
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

RE Jan Perdue's letter about internet access charges

2007-01-17 14:51:19

Grrrrrrr! This burn me up! Thanks for sending it Jan. I just posted it to
alt.med.fibromyalgia, alt.mothers, alt.support.arthritis, alt.support.thyroid,
misc.health.arthritis. Anyone subscribed to others please do the same. Now you
all know where I hang out when I'm not boring you all here with my loooooong
letters!<G

MSM Question and response

2007-01-17 11:20:57

Lurker Judy wrote:
"I don't think I paid proper attention to the posts regarding DMSO and
MSM; are they the same thing & if not, could you or anyone in the group
please clarify what the MSM is? I think I understand that the DMSO is
something that vets use on horses, but am confused as to how we should
use it; only topically or is there some type of pill form also?"
It's a derivative of DMSO and doesn't have the unpleasant smell that DMSO causes
one to have ( I've read it referred to as smelling like oysters - someone else
who has used it can probably comment more accurately on that). MSM is organic
sulphur. You can read more about it at http://www.msm.com/. I'm currently
taking it in powdered form - have been on it for about a week ( a few days on
the powdered form). 1/4 teaspoon = 1 Gram. I'm currently taking around 5-6
G/day. If I notice great pain relief, I will let the group know.
Mark
RA 4/98 A/P 7/98
Mino (100mg/2x/daily)
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA Chat: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
mholmes@... ICQ # 18123139

Funny: Chinese Ebonics

2007-01-17 05:35:48

Doc Chiu may get a kick out of these.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

Joe PS re NIH doc

2007-01-16 19:39:29

There isalso a long list of referneces at the end of the Physician's protocol,
my doc was impressed by this. When I get the time, I'm going to try and find
websites where some of these ref's can be found online. If any of the
chronically bored want to help, this is a call for volunteers! This is so
important to bring this treatment into the mainstream, let's compile a list of
these kind of web references! I volunteer to keep the list, anyone who has web
references please bring them to my attention in your posts--maybe this will lead
us to the day when anyone can walk into any Drs office and get the AP as easily
as they get nsaids now! Thanks again Joe. LizG

Pneumonia

2007-01-16 16:48:27

Dear Leslie:
That could be a possibility. How do you check for pneumonia and are these the
symptoms?
Bev

Joe re:NIH doc

2007-01-16 12:45:35

Give him the www.immed.org site, it's got lots of good stuff there. I'm looking
for this type of info too--glad you asked! Any I find I will post here! Also
collecting some anecdotal info, if you think he would like to se this too, let
me know. LizG

NIH Doc -- Help

2007-01-16 03:28:04

Hello Everybody,
As many of you know, Mark and I are participants in a National
Institutes of Health (NIH) study of arthritics in their first year of
active disease. Without getting into too many details of the study (we
are just being studied, not treated) I think we may have an opportunity
here. Mark and I found that we are under the care of the same NIH
doctor, Dr. Seigel.
I can't speak for Mark, but I have developed a wonderful report with
this doctor. I'd like to point out that though Dr. Seigel is a
"traditional" rheumatologist, he believes in the AP, though not because
the antibiotics are killing critters, but because the mino acts as an
anti-inflammatory and an enzyme inhibitor. Though he is traditional, I
have found Dr. S to be the most caring rheumy I have yet to meet. He is
always willing to talk about any treatments or medicines or anything
related to RA with me at any length. Our most recent discussions have
revolved around 2 things. The first one is DMSO. He had never heard of
using DMSO topically for arthritis before I talked about it. He was
impressed though skeptical about my story of being in Amsterdam and
using the DMSO to reduce my knee swelling. Apparently they use DMSO in
their labs, but only as a solvent. He asked where he could get info, so
I gave him the www.dmso.org web site and he said he would research
it.... The second thing we discussed was the AP and whether or not it
works because it's an antibiotic or an anti-inflamatory. I was aghast at
his lack of knowledge of the current infectious theories. It seems he's
been sold a line by his professors and higher ranking rheumies at NIH,
so much so he hasn't really studied any of these theories. So here's the
good part, he want me to point him in the right direction so he might
find these theories and can study them himself. So my question to the
group is: What should I send him? I am worried about sending to much
info and have him gloss over it, not really spending the necessary time
to assimilate all there is out there. I am also worried about sending
him too little or stuff that is too simple (remember he is a research
doc at NIH, the more scientific the source, the more credibility the
info will have). So what should I send him? Just point him to the web
site (www.rheumatic.org)? Is there a more "doctor oriented" place for
him to go? I just want to make sure we get the most out of this shot
into the mind of a rheumy! There is an open window here, but I don't
know how wide open it is or how long it will be open. Since this has the
potential to affect all of us, I thought I'd try to get some more input
from others in the group.
Anyone want to help?!
thanks,
j.

Linda--yes!

2007-01-15 20:21:19

WoooooHoooo! good news! Keep it coming! Thanks for putting that up about the
palpitations and magnesium--good to know. Does anyone know what contains natiral
progesterones, precursors to this etc in light of what Linda said about this?
I'm hearing from all my inquiries about my sisters' conditions that
autoimmunity runs in families. I have a real hard time buying the concept of
"autoimmunity" at all, myself. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how
much is this due to genetic predisposition, and how much is due to
infectiousness of a possible pathogen. Thanks to all of you who have ventured
guesses! LizG

Internet Accesss Charges]

2007-01-15 18:32:10

Group,
This is only for the people in the United States but important.
Thanks,
jan perdue

Purchasing antibiotics over the net--Denise

2007-01-15 14:59:13

The S.F Chronicle had an article about illegal purchases (all kinds) on the
internet and apparently the USDA is keeping an eye on some of the companies
doing this--so if you try it remember, big brother is watching! In the same
article, someone from the DEA said they are not bothering to cruise the net
watching for people sellling marijuana there. Either this is a bait, or it
seems you can get pot there without worrying, but not tetracyclines! <LOL

Fosamax

2007-01-15 05:33:44

Hi all, Maria here. I'm on Fosamax due to bone decay thanks to Prednisone.
I'm trying to wean off of it, but it's a slow process. I went to RxList.com
and looked it up, and read all the pages of info on it, but saw nothing of
prescribing it to PRE-menopausal women, just POST-menopausal. Any Pre-
menopausal women out there taking it? I wonder if it's going to mess me up or
what...

steath Pathogens in RA, ALS, MS

2007-01-15 03:22:45

HI Group,
I found this article pretty interesting.
Leslie

clinda vs zithro

2007-01-14 14:34:00

Ethel, I want to repeat a second antobiotic soon, but my veins are in such poor
shape that I hesitate to do the Clindamycin IV's again right now. Moe people
seem to be using and benefiting from Zithromax. How do the two compare?
Linda
(RA 20 + yr. AP 16 mo.)

good news

2007-01-14 09:56:08

I want to thank everyone for the support I received over the last few weeks. I
got my biopsy results from last week's surgery yesterday afternoon. Everything
was NORMAL! I am so thankful and so relieved!!!
Linda

RA-SPES

2007-01-14 03:51:13

Is anyone still using RA-SPES and benefiting from it? I haven't seen it
mentioned much lately.
Linda

heart palpitations

2007-01-13 23:19:45

I just thought since we have so many new people in the group, that I would
mention again what happened to me. Last year, I began having periods of 2-10
hours where my heart would beat irregularly: pounding, every beat felt, rapid
beats, missed beats. Four trips to the ER found nothing. A cardiologist
recommended by the hospital found nothing. He said put more salt in my diet to
raise my BP and ignore the beats!! Finally, I found a cardiologist who
recognized some of his own symptoms. He suspected low potassium and magnesium
even though blood tests showed I was at the low end of normal in both. When I
increased my vegetable consumption and magnesium supplements, the irregular
beats disappeared. ( I do have mitral valve prolapse and get the odd irregular
beat from that, but it is totally different.) My naturopath once told me that
people with RA tend to be low in magnesium.
A few months after the irregular beats stopped, I discovered I was low in
progesterone. Dr. Lee's book explains that progesterone is a precursor for
andosterone which controls the potassium and sodium levels in the body. Stress,
emotional or physical, interferes with the whole chain of hormones that are in
the progesterone group. Perhaps there was a connection here too.
I think it's really important to be checked out thoroughly by a good
cardiologist if there are regular episodes of irregular heartbeats.
Linda

Infective agents in several "autoimmune" diseases

2007-01-13 11:59:38

Ethel thanks for sending me that article, this site is a treasure trove of info
for those who have not seen it yet check out www.immed.org The Institute of
Molecular Medicine LizG

antibiotics

2007-01-13 11:38:42

I found this interesting article: HOW TO PURCHASE ANTIBIOTICS LEGALLY
OVERSEAS WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION at: http://www.immed.org/
Denise

hello from mexico

2007-01-13 04:38:40

JANNI: I`ve been using METHO for almost 3 months (RA) and I feel really great
since the third week so maybe it`s going to be great for you to;I take two pills
at the morning and one at night once a week.But this week I`m gonna start the
Protocol of AT,with the help,support and supervision of everyone in here.I also
took about two years ago more or less Paxil and it was also great for me, it was
incredible because it makes me feel "cool" ,great,everything was under control
etc.in few words(like we said in here) marvelous.
Hugs again to everyone.(with so much hugs from everyone we`ll gonna
end....)Rocio

therabead balls

2007-01-12 21:53:39

Hi Group
I'm not sure if I got the name right, but where do you get them. I had
heard about them in the ng, but not the name so I went into WalMart and
asked in pharmacy the lady hadn't heard of them, but called one of their
suppliers over and said to ask him. So i told him I was looking for
balls you put into the microwave then squeesed---apparently this is
something you don't ask a guy right out of the blue, they react funny,
but he didn't have any balls for that.
Now who does sell them, I only have one sore fingers, but I have
chronically cold hands and thought a couple of nice warm balls to
squeese would both warm them and increase my hand strenght.
Thanks Julie

hello from mexico

2007-01-12 21:00:28

Good Night everyone out there...I`m back now I`ve been in Mexico all day long
and they took my brother to surgery about 5:00 pm and my mother called minutes
ago and she told us that the surgery was finish and that the MD told them (my
mom and my other brother) that it seems like everything it`s o.k. I pray,hope
and I`m sure of that.Tomorrow I will go again so I`ll talk at night again.Thanks
again to everyone and see you tomorrow.
Kelly: I know what you mean don`t worry...But you were right in here it was
4:00am.(ups!!!!)
Big Kiss.Rocio

UNSUBSCRIBE

2007-01-12 08:50:49

please unsubscribe for the time being.

LUPUS MEMBERS

2007-01-12 06:41:00

Hi,
Anyone out there with Lupus who fits Bill's description who would be willing
to post him??!! He actually wants to physically 'talk' to someone who has
had success with the AP.
IMPORTANT !! ONLY lupus people please !!! He is not a member of the group
(yet - grin) and we need to respect his wishes.
Thanks Lupies and I'd be interested ot hear how you get on.:-))
hugs,
lisbeth

CORRECTION: MUST READ: HERB LINKED TO SUDDEN DEATH

2007-01-11 18:17:10

<A HREF="http://www.msnbc.com/news/247965.asp"
sudden death</A
correction to web site http://www.msnbc.com/news/247965.asp

MUST READ: HERB LINKED TO SUDDEN DEATH

2007-01-11 18:13:23

Article about ma huang AKA ephedrine. Used for Weight Loss as well as to
relieve sinus congestion
AOL click here <A HREF="http://www.msnbc.com/news/Summary.asp"
Page</A
http://www.msnbc.com/news/247965.asp#BODY

devilclaw

2007-01-11 13:28:29

Has anyone had any experience with the herb devilsclaw? An herbalist told me
to take 15 drops 3 times a day for swelling. Is this fairly safe?
Thanks,
Carol*

My lab tests

2007-01-11 05:10:34

Just thought I would share some of my good news that I get from time to time and
it seems to be proof that something is happening (or at least I hope so and hope
it isn't a temporary fluke!). My last visit to the NIH produced some much
improved blood work. Whether this blood work really means anything I'm not sure
- I do know that it is nice to see it going down vs. going up. So here's to
minocycline!
Here's how my ESR has gone since I got RA
4/98 11
7/98 48 started taking minocycline after this test
8/98 35
10/98 28
2/99 14
and my rheumatoid factor
4/98 ?
7/98 167 started minocycline after this test
8/98 305
10/98 ?
2/99 128
My IgA and IgM have also fallen to normal and only my IgG is still elevated
although it is dropping as well.
CRP - C- Reactive Protein appears to be 0 in last 2/99 test with 0-1mg/dl being
normal.
And my borderline diabetes has returned to normal.
Sure hope this is as good as it looks! Don't have another follow up till
August!
Mark
RA 4/98 A/P 7/98
Mino (100mg/2x/daily)
http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes
RA Chat: http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html
mholmes@... ICQ # 18123139

Swedish Proverb

2007-01-10 20:51:33

Someone sent me this Swedish Proverb and I thought the group would enjoy
it...
So Lisbeth, it this really Swedish??
Fear less, hope more; eat less, chew
more; whine less, breathe more; talk
less, say more; hate less, love more,
and all good things are yours.
j.

New Rheumy

2007-01-10 19:23:11

Friday morning I had my first appointment with DR. Richard Jimenez in Edmonds,
WA., who is on the AP list. I was more than delighted that he is in support of
and even encourages me to continue my use of antibiotics. He, like Mark Holmes
doctor, wants me to take them every day, not the pulse method. The reason he
gave was that he feels the everyday use more effective than pulse and pulse was
used primarily at the beginning of antibiotic use of inflammatory joint
diseases. But as years of research have been made his recommendation is every
day use. I have been taking them every day since beginning in October because I
felt I would get more benefit from them. It was so wonderful to finally find a
doctor who was on the same page as me for my search for remission. Today I
informed my former rheumy. He is also concerned about my pain level and has put
me back to .06ml injections of Methotexrate and has prescribed Methodone to keep
my pain under control. I haven't been able to get the medication yet, but will
let you all know how it goes. Has anyone had experience with this drug? I am to
supplement the Methodone with aspirin with codeine and continue with the
anti-inflammatory. He wants me to switch from Naproxen to Lodine for my
stomach, but my insurance turned it down, so far, I intend to find out why, and
at $97.00 a month, I'll put up with the Naproxen or get my insurance to help.
As for my mental state, I am taking Paxil, which seems to be helping a bit, too
soon to tell. That's about it. Just wanted you all to know that a doctor on
our list is definitely a keeper.
Hugs to all,
Jani

Rocio!

2007-01-10 06:14:10

Of course you didn't bother anyone, that's why the computer has an "off" button
and the great thing about this kind of communication, no phones ringing at the
wrong moment!

Hello from mexico

2007-01-10 01:59:59

Sorry I didn`t thanks MARK for the info...
Thanks Chris I already talk with my father and he already read all the protocol
he is very interest and maybe I`ll start this week.big kiss.
Thanks everyone for the help.huggies Rocio

hello from mexico

2007-01-09 17:38:11

Good morning group:
Thanks Denise for the info you gave me lasta night about lapacho.
AND SORRY if I bother someone yesterday at night I know it was late but I was
working in other things and I didn`t look what time it was.Hugs and have a great
week.Rocio

questions and answers

2007-01-09 15:14:48

Maria...have you tried using just real egg whites for your eggs? You can slip in
just a tad of yoke to add some yellow color. I actually like the taste of the
whites better than the whole egg a lot of the time. I seem to either crave eggs
or be totally repulsed my them. You can cook up the left over yoke for your pets
if you have no one else to use them on.
Fonts...if you are set to receive html and the person sends out in html, you
will see the font size that they pick. The best thing is to not send out any
mail in html, then the receiver can regulate the size on their end.
Bev...your arthritis foundation helps people out personally? As far as I know
all our does is take your money and send you a magazine.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

ARTICLE ON CURCUMIN

2007-01-09 07:19:57

For a comprehensive article on the benefits of the herb curcumin go to the
following URL:

To liz...FMS

2007-01-09 01:07:16

I was told I have FMS. I am doing the Guaifenesin for it. Its a protocol much
like the AP for arthritis. Its originally an expectorant and as I have asthma
the doc was agreeable to it. Some people also using AP with success for it. You
can read about both in the FMS stuff on the supportlinks page. The Guai does
stop my muscle spasms
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

All right God--that's enough!

2007-01-09 00:22:59

I can hardly believe what is happening to my family! I talked to my one sis
withFMS again and just found out that my other sister has just been diagnosed
with Graves' Disease. What is it with my family and this autoimmune thing!!
Enough is enough already! I'm setting off to research this now--any idea if
there has ever been research into this r.e. the AP,anybody have any info or can
point me in the right direction? They're giving her meds right now, haven't
found out what yet, but she has lost 20 pounds and was quite small to begin
with, so probably won't wait too long before they zap her thyroid into oblivion
forever. Anyone with clues, experience or info I would appreciate some input!
Sincerely, LizG

stress

2007-01-08 17:21:53

I've just had another reminder about how much stress--for me, the biopsy and
waiting for results-- can affect my joints and muscles in my back that are not
normally a problem. On the surface, I think I've been dealing with it well. I
do regular relaxations breathing, visualization, exercise etc., but I guess the
effects of extra stress, the unconscious ones, are powerful, especially
considering that we have a high level of emotional and physical stress anyway.
"Be kind to yourself" takes on a whole new meaning, and so does the help from
this group.
Linda

RA tests

2007-01-08 13:27:57

Could anyone please give me some ideas of a good book to interpret the
abbreviations and purposes of the tests that the doctors have ran on my husband
and myself. I can find some info in my Merck manual but there have been so many
tests that I can't be sure of all of them. I have found inconsistencies in what
the Merck and Dr. Brown say about some RA tests and my husband's test results.
Does anyone know what "compliment level" referrs to?
Sincerely,
Elizabeth

Girl Scout Cookies...

2007-01-08 09:36:32

Oh That Girl Scout Cookie Time....
For those of us who have to keep our bodies feeling well,
This Girl Scout cookie time, is not too very swell.
The peanut butter, oh the mints, the oatmeal, me oh my,
I want to eat them up, but my body, it would cry:
"OH NO! NOT SUGAR! DON'T YOU GET IT!"
The yeast! My tongue, you now can pet it!
It's furry from the Candida, and my bowels are just screamin'
"GET THAT SUGAR OUT OF HERE, TO ME IT'S LIKE A DEMON!"
So... listen to my body, I will, and skip those Girl Scout cookies,
Oh it's hard to give them up, but let me tell you rookies,
Candida, yeast and thrush, are so hard to exile,
But those hard-to-give-up cookies will be gone in just a while.
And back to normal diets we will all soon gladly be,
And the desire for those cookies will just be a memory.
HANG IN THERE!!!! I'm sure having a rough time doing so!!
Maria

"Fake" eggs

2007-01-08 02:27:54

Hi all, Maria here. As I check my mail this morning I'm eating my scrambled
"Second Nature" eggs and notice, once again, that they're kind of watery. I
see this happen with quite a few brands of these no-cholesterol egg products.
Anyone out there happy with their brand? Any suggestions?
Thanks!

hello from mexico

2007-01-07 16:50:30

LIZ G:
Thanks for the info and a big Thanks for the kisses.you too and your babys.Rocio

hello from mexico

2007-01-07 16:22:20

THANKS TO EVERYONE ABOUT THE SUPPORT AND WARM WORDS "WHAT A GROUP" I ALMOST FEEL
IT LIKE I`VE BEEN A LONG TIME IN HERE...Thanks.
Sarah:Thanks a lot for giving me your support and advises about the AT.
Martha:I just heard you were in pain why don`t you take metho,or arthrotec use
it like an anti-infla.maybe is good for you.hope you are feeling better.
Leslie:Thank you very much about the word you said about my brother and my
baby...you has been great.Thanks.
Maria:Also thanks for your prayers.I do appreciate much more than you imagine.
Deb:You too has been great for me about the support and the push of taking the
AT.thanks a bunch.Tell me more about your mexican friends.
Paula:I don`t know what to say to you too.thanks a lot.YOU ALL HAS BEEN REALLY
GREAT.
Love this group hope everyone feels the way that I do,that we are a worldwide
family.
BIG KISESSSSSSSS AND SPECIAL HUGS FOR EVERYONE.Rocio

AP dosage for me

2007-01-07 08:42:00

I am starting back on 100 mg of Doxycycline two times a day, preferably morning
and early evening.
This is taken every day of the week. At least this is what I am on now
considering I could not take
Azulfidine, Plaguenil or any of the other anti-inflammatory drugs. I cannot take
aspirin, advil,....
with a tendency for asthma I then wheeze. I also do not do well on Ultram
either. I am also on
10 mg of predisone because of the acuteness of the RA right in my finger joint.
Now when I
returned to my physician (rheumatologist) who knows what she will say! I am
going to first
speak with orthopedic M.D. and then possible may check out Mayo Clinic and set
up a visit for
appt. Good night. I am a night person, but I work as well. This, however, is
very late tonight, but
I have enjoyed it. Welcome to all the newer "family" members than I. Martha

hello from mexico

2007-01-07 01:08:45

Good night to everyone...here is everything trying to be o.k. my parents has
returned from Mexico and told me that the MD decide to take to surgery my
brother tomorrow I`ll be out all day long hope everything is o.k.;He is in very
good hand and in a very good hospital so I`m not gonna worry.(i`m only gonna
pray it`s the best thing to do).Sorry if I didn`t answaer before but I was
having a lot of problems in the connection yesterday at night so I refuse to beg
him because I was about more than an hr here trying to make the conection and
nothing so I decided to go to sleep at last.
LISBETH Thank you very,very much for your words I really appreciated,thats why
this is "THE GROUP" (and the best).
LIZ G. Thank you too you are always there for everyone....thank you! My baby is
18 months but know he is really fine and he is eating like a little bird....but
a pre-historic bird thanks God.
BELATED WELCOME to Yosi and Leslie here we are for EVRYTHING have you already
notice??????????
QUESTION???
Could someone tell me what does LAPACHO and PAU D`ARCO means are they some
medicine or some natural thing???thanks a lot and have a warm night.Special Hugs
Rocio

thanks!

2007-01-06 16:25:48

Leslie, Thanks for sending me the name of the chain store where the Therabeads
were purchased. I
will check on it next week. Sounds beneficial. Have a great week. Martha

Update and EPD

2007-01-06 14:00:44

Hi All,
It's been a while since I posted, and keeping up with all the mail is
getting harder and harder. But it's great to see that our family continues
to grow, and that's it's done so much good for so many. I don't know what
I'd do without it.
I saw Dr. Armstrong 3 weeks ago Friday, and I had my first dose of EPD
(Enzyme Potentiated Desensitization). I've been waiting because 3 weeks is
when you're supposed to be reaching maximum effectiveness. Is it working?
I don't know. I've had the flu for the last 2 weeks. I do know that my
intestines aren't back to normal yet, but it's hard to know whether that's
good or bad. I have to have my next dose in 5 weeks, and each dose is
supposed to work better, so we'll have to wait and see. It is a pretty
complicated procedure. I OCR'ed the booklet that Jenny gave me, so you can
take a look if you're interested, but in a nutshell, it's a couple of small
needles just under the skin. The hard part is that you can only eat Yams,
Celery, Lettuce, a couple of other vegetables and Lamb (don't ask why, I
don't know). Plus, you can't wash your hair for about 3 days. No
deodorant, all kinds of different pills and vitamins. I just went back to
my regular shampoo yesterday.
I'm still on ciproflaxin. I'm taking 500 mg per day right now. We may
start to pulse soon. I'm also going to see if she'll let me go back on
minocin. One of Dr. Mirkin's reports suggested that 2 different
antibiotics might be more effective, because the bugs can't become
resistant to 2 different drugs. And because I didn't herx with the cipro.
But then not everybody does, so that doesn't mean it isn't working. And I
do have some evidence that it is. My throught had sort of closed up for
about 2 months, and finally I don't have a sore throught, and I can swallow
again. Course this means that now I can start to take a bunch more
vitamins and suppliments that I couldn't get down before.
I hope everyone else is doing OK.
Take care,
Shaun
Shaun A. Firth
"There is no one right way to live."

Re; Dr's Names

2007-01-06 07:09:18

I'm just sitting here catching up on all the old mail. What a job.
my family dr. growing up was Dr. Au. (say it out loud)
Shaun A. Firth
"There is no one right way to live."

STEM CELLS Research offers new way to treat lupus, other diseases

2007-01-05 17:57:35

<A HREF="http://www.msnbc.com/news/247099.asp"
clock</A
http://www.msnbc.com/news/247099.asp

THE SURVIVING SCLERODERMA WEB SITE

2007-01-05 17:05:04

The surviving scleroderma web site provides a comprehensive subject index
for this disease including a detailed section on
minocycline studies and a link to rheumatic.org. To see this web site, go to
the following URL:

AP and Fibromyalgia

2007-01-05 14:21:44

I was just talking to my sister on the phone about the AP, she has had FMS for
probably about 35-40 years, and wants to ask her doctor about trying the AP. I
will read all I can about this for FMS on the website but would really
appreciate hearing from anyone with info or experience not on the website. Her
next DRs appt is in May so no hurry on this. Oooooohh I am so excited she wants
to hear more, the fatigue and pain has devestated her life and even though she
has been able to work throughout so far this speaks more for her will than her
condition, and it looks like she will have to go on disability soon if she does
not improve. Thanks for any help you can offer. Sincerely, LizG

new book and mineral info

2007-01-05 07:56:46

I have added the "Bitter Pills: Inside the World of Hazardous Legal Drugs" to
the group books pages. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/books3.htm
Also a Mineral Chart that you can print out if you want.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/minerals.pdf
PS If you use the search amazon box on the main books page, any books you buy
will give a small commission to me. I appreciate it, it helps me pay my online
costs.
Sarah
--
Clark Signs:
http://members.xoom.com/sclark/
AP Support Group:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/
Lots of arthritis and health links:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/supportlinks.htm

changing antibiotics

2007-01-05 01:12:10

Hi All
Yesterday someone said that people were having to switch antibiotics
faster than Dr Brown did, I was wondering if it was the different
protocols that some were using. I'd like to know if they were on the
everyday or the MWF or the 5 days a week. Just to see if there is a
correlation. Also the dosage. Would some of you having to switch mind
posting your AP schedules?
Julie

MSM question

2007-01-04 16:07:20

Has anyone used MSM? Does anyone have any info, good or bad?
thanks
Linda

MARTHA :-))

2007-01-04 09:17:46

Hi Martha,
I'm a bit late out with my WELCOME but is none the less very heartfelt and a
warm hug comes with it !
No need to tell you that this group is a support group in a *very* big way,
supplying absolutely every conceivable kind of support one could possibly need!
I'm glad you've already had lots of responses, I guess you'll soon be reaching
the stage of information overload <smile
Lucky you getting all those side effects with the 'conventional' drugs as this
has led you to look for something else and a *real* chance at getting better.
Grandma needs to be able to get down on the floor and play with those grandkids,
right? <warm smile
You're right about Plaquenil it is just another immune suppressing agent, good
for you refusing it !! This is *your* body and *your* life, don't let them talk
you into anything you're not happy with!
I'm sure you've already received the basic advice about all the info on the web
site, Henry Scammells book, supplements for inflammation etc. so I won't go over
it again. .........just did didn't I <grin
You asked about Candida, if you start the AP and if you do have Candida it is
important that you get it cleared up as it impedes the antibiotics function.
Avoid Diflucan as it is very toxic and I'm sure you know about no sugar !!!
Candida can be treated by olive leaf, garlic, oil of oregano and the US
product called Candida Pl